Came back from an unplanned extended weekend getaway and now coming down with flu. (So I'll be keeping this short)
To everyone who commented, thank you. I read each and every opinion and learned much. I'd like to respond to each one individually, but this time, I can't.
To some people, it seems very clear that they did suffer emotional abuse.
I wasn't so sure. Probably because saying so made me feel guilty. But after reading the ANDREW VACHSS article that appeared in Parade Magazine, I definitely think so. http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html (Thank you for the link, Katherine Gunn!)
As the child of narcissistic parents, I was emotionally abused.
That said, of course, not all of us will come to the same conclusion. I just want to make it clear than I respect whatever conclusion you've come to on this difficult subject. Like Ella, who wrote that she thought she had really bad parents, but they weren't necessarily abusive. (I hope I phrased that correctly!)
Reading Vachss' description helped me see my parent's behavior more clearly.
When my father wasn't talking my ear off or seeking my attention, he mocked and belittled me. He mocked me for having opinions that differed from his own. He used to say things like, "You think you're so smart, don't you?" Later, when I went to college, he'd say, "So who cares if you went to college? You're nothing but a little know-it-all."
When I tried to tell him about myself, he'd immediately lose interest and begin talking about himself. To the point that, to this day, I've never been allowed to finish one complete sentence.
My narcissistic father didn't know how to parent. He'd never seen it before. His alcoholic father beat him. His mother worked long hours to support them. He was a latch-key kid.
Occasionally, n-dad would get weepy watching me interact with my kids, saying he'd never got that kind of attention and he'd never got help with his school work, and his parents had never shown any interest in him. In fact, he sounded jealous of his granddaughters and often, competed with them for my attention. It never seemed to occur to n-dad that he was a father. That he'd never helped me with my school work and shown any interest in me.
My mother specialized in cold punishing silences that could go on for weeks. I'd do something that displeased her and she'd retaliate by pretending not to see or hear me.
As Vachss wrote, "A parent's love is so important to a child that withholding it can cause a "failure to thrive" condition similar to that of children who have been denied adequate nutrition."
So yes, I see it more clearly now. I was emotionally abused.
12 comments:
You phrased my thoughts well, Nina. It's sad that we even need to have this discussion -- that any of us should need to consider whether the way our parents treated us was abusive.
Does anyone KNOW how to parent, until they actually do it? BUT i think for most people, when it does come time to be a parent... you PUT YOUR CHILDRENS NEEDS AHEAD OF YOUR OWN... and that's what's lacking in a narcissistic home... it's lacking in homes where alcohol is present and i'm sure a lot of other situations as well (i'm just familiar w/the two i've cited)...
i think some people are reluctant to "label" themselves as abused, especially if they're still in the enlightening stages of figuring out who/what/how they are & the bigger WHY in all of that.
i'm still sometimes reluctant to admit that my father actions affected me they way they did... i'd rather be STRONGER than that, i'd rather be BETTER than that...i'd rather be MORE than the sum of his actions and abuse...
and i AM, because i KNOW what he did know... and i know it WASNT because of me... IT WAS HIM and that makes me feel better... it might not make others feel better, but for ME... it feels like... whew.. at least i know i deserve more & look how much more i HAVE now that i've gotten past him...
ELLA,
You said it! It IS sad that we even need to have this discussion. I am grateful for one thing. Such a discussion is impossible in my (adoptive) family some of us "kids" were parentified or emotionally abused. That I can have the discussion HERE...with smart, reflective people such as yourself and Roxtarchic and everybody else is an incredible gift for which I am very grateful!
ROXTARCHIC:
"Does anyone KNOW how to parent, until they actually do it?" You're dead on, there. My husband pointed out this very thing to me...saying I was too quick to excuse my n-dad's lack of skills on the fact that he was abused.
But you got me wondering. How many of our n-parents came from poor, tough backgrounds? I think my n-dad's life was so rough that, to him, parenting simply meant providing a home, food and clothes. He was a solid (although VERY stingy) provider who did work hard. I believe he thought he was a good parent because he did not drink nor did he hit me. He pointed this out more than a few times. But he totally lacks empathy and had no concept of emotional support. His idea of spending time with me meant me listening to his endless chatter.
Oh...I TOTALLY get the reluctance to admit that his actions affected me. Because that means I have to admit certain things about myself and I don't like being weak, either.
I really like what you said...about having got "past him." It makes me think of us having to skirt around a big, scary tricky monster that wants nothing more than to hold us back!
my father is also of the very poor, hard working, school of hard knocks kind of background, and i thin it was extremely abusive and i also think as an alter boy he experienced some abuse as well. my nana, his mother was a very sheltered (forgive me) evil B!TCH. i say sheltered, and i mean selfish and just horrible (to her 'american grandchildren') but i dont believe she was narcissistic in the way my father is... i believe she had a high opinion of herself, and she was taken care of by her children until she died (like it was expected and she never worked a DAY in her life)... BUT i dont remember her being so manipulative and controlling as my father... HOWEVER, she may have been to him! he HATED her... but it was resentment & he never let her forget it...
she had dementia and alzheimers when she died. i wonder do all narcs wind up like that?
and i'm grateful as well for the opportunity to express all of this, makes it SOO much easier to digest.
oh & my father never hit me either... and is VERY proud of that, like it's an accomplishment. "i've never laid a hand on you my whole life" well... ummm... NO.... but you don't get a medal you're still a ______
. In fact, he sounded jealous of his granddaughters and often, competed with them for my attention.
Oh definitely your dad was jealous to the max of his own grandchildren. That was one of the first clues that mom and dad might just not only be in the nonacceptable level of selfishness and are actually in the realm of character defect when they demanded first priority in my sister’s life over that of her children and husband. It was “okay, I think something isn’t quite right here.” When my sister refused their demands, mom and dad totally ditched any pretend-interest in their grandchildren and fantasized that my sister will be abandoned by her husband and children and left destitute, alone, and friendless because of how she treated her “poor mother and father.” They were positively giddy in these daydreams. Then I was “okay, now I KNOW they ain’t right in the head.”
I believe he thought he was a good parent because he did not drink nor did he hit me. He pointed this out more than a few times.
When n-dad pissed and moaned about his life and us awful kids, I pointed out that none of his children ever gave his trouble: we don’t drink, do drugs, nor are pregnant, get good grades, and are considered to be good kids by his colleagues. He snapped back, “That’s what you are supposed to do, why should you be rewarded for doing something you are supposed to do.” It never occurred to my teenage self to turn it around and ask why he expected to be adored and treated like god for providing us a home, even though he filled it with eggshells for us to tip toe around.
I too am grateful for the opportunity for this discussion, especially since we can’t talk about to people who are fortunate to never experienced what we did. So many things fit the puzzle, finally, and it really helped me and my sister. We are nothing like our parents and we are not the sum of their actions and abuses, the fact that we are not narcissists is testimony enough. But it did effect us and we need to vent now and then.
ROXTARCHIC, Your Nana sounds like a hellish handful! I've seen some nice people develop dementia, but it's the nasty ones who stick out more - I suspect - because they require so much care...after not caring much for others. So it just seems so unfair for others.
Mmm...so your dad said that, too (with an accent). It's really interesting that they seemed to want credit for such an odd "accomplishment."
ENILINA: OMG...your parents wallowed in those kinds of daydreams about your poor sister? That's really bizarre!
Hah! "Provided us a home and filled it with eggshells for us to walk on." PERFECT!
'I believe he thought he was a good parent because he did not drink nor did he hit me. He pointed this out more than a few times.'
My father would point out these attributes as to what made him a good husband and how my mother was a b*tch for leaving him. He was also an old school hard worker - labored many hours a week, and made decent money, but would have a fit if mom spent too much money on a necessity, such as clothes, shoes, DOCTOR VISITS; then would go and buy such necessities as a freakin' law enforcement scanner for an audacious amount of money so he could spy on which of his neighbors weren't such good people as he was.
Yes, it is a form of abuse, and people who have never gone through it do not understand. I have a borderline mother who thought she could get away with abusing my husband, for many reasons, my favorite being because he is not Asian like she is, but most of her reasons are made up. I confronted her and did not come home for the holidays to show that I will not put up with it. To "punish" me, she threw away all my Christmas presents to her, blamed my husband for it and says he is no longer welcome in her home. Months later, she did not call me on my birthday, and in return, I did not call her on "mother's day." Some might say I should be the bigger person and called her on Mother's Day, but my answer is, until she starts ACTING like a mother, then she can be acknowledged as one. I'm glad you put up this blog. I look forward to reading more your posts. It's good therapy for me to read other's experiences....
KL,
Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment...takes me a bit to catch up.
Well gee, who'd want to call their mom on mother's day after THAT? Maybe it wasn't punishing so much as self protection? If she threw away your Xmas gifts, didn't acknowledge her own daughter's birthday!, then can you imagine what sort of abuse you might have come in for on a day when she felt especially entitled?
You mentioned that your mom is Asian.
I'm VERY interested in what you think about how culture may or may not impact parental behavior. A friend of mine insists that my father's behavior is more rooted in Latino culture...where many children are parentified.
I have had many Asian friends and some have complained about controlling mothers. I thought this might be generational as well as cultural, but my teenage daughter also has many Asian friends who are children of mostly Chinese immigrants and THEY complain about over-controlling mothers with what sounds, to me, like narcissistic traits.
It's funny...but your Asian mom sounds like my Mexican cousin! She's extremely self-absorbed, but also bipolar.
In any case, what you are experience is sad and mentally exhausting because your mother sounds so, well, actively and insistently hostile!
I don't think of myself as a victim but instead as a prisoner.
I think I can call it abuse because I have suffered pretty severe physical pain but the emotional pain beats the physical by far. There was many a night I lay in agony wondering why my mother hated me. If my mother didn't love me who could possible like me? Am I really that bad? Why I couldn't ever be good enough no matter how hard I tried. I hated myself I couldn't be perfect. I wanted so badly to be able to just take it and not fight back or cry.
It all hurt so much. When I believed what she said about me it hurt even worse. I truly thought that I was just a burden, and that it would have been better if I never had been born. I believed that I wasn't worthy to breathe. I didn't even hate my mother as much as I hated my self.
All those hours questioning trying to figure it out all the while in agony. That pain I think is greater than any physical pain I could ever suffer.
Garfield
As a teenager, I received a lot of advice that was passed off as 'tough love:' "You're just like your father... You're so awkward around people. That's why you don't have any friends... You're ungrateful... You have Asperger's... You should go live with him... I hate the person you've become... I hate you."
My mother jumped out of her sham of a marriage and into a lesbian relationship with one of her former CLIENTS. A relationship that I was instantly expected to accept. I dealt with it by playing basketball at the N lesbian's behest. The only way I got any validation in that family was by allowing her to live vicariously through my athletic career.
When high school was over, I fell apart. I didn't know who I was. All I knew was that I hated myself. How could I not after internalizing all the years of bullshit about what a terrible, unlikeable person I was?
It continues to this day. "You're a robot. You never show any emotion. You're very hard to deal with. That one time two years ago when you didn't call me to see how I was taking my grandmother's illness...that shows how uncaring you are. You don't care about us at all."
When my mom found out I was bulimic (in a very humiliating 'family meeting' that she invited my little sister and my grandparents to) she said "well you're really a fucking mess, aren't you?" When she found out I had given myself an abortion with pennyroyal tea, she said something to the effect of "that was foolish, don't do that again." I'm really not a person to her.
Sorry if this stuff is not that interesting or well put together, I just have to vent.
Accidental Insomniac...
Hah! I'd pay good money to watch you show some good old fashioned honest emotion in front of your mom and see how she reacts. She'd have no clue what to do with it! You've been trained not to show honest emotion...to become a robot...because you being you would greatly upset her.
While my daughters exasperate me sometimes, I can't imagine for one single second ever saying the cruel things your mother says to you. That is straight-up verbal abuse. Every once in a while, a parent may totally lose it and say mean stuff. I'm not excusing it. But if it's the rule and not the rare exception...if this is what you can expect at every encounter? Of course you need to vent! Vent away!
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