When an anonymous commenter drifted by and called me an ungrateful daughter, I wasn't surprised.
In fact, I'm surprised it took almost three months of blogging about narcissistic parents to get that sort of reaction.
Because, in real life, that's a totally typical response if you dare break the Honor Your Parent code, even if you had lousy parents who neglected or abused you. You're either told to "buck up" or "get over it" and/or forgive them. Apparently, venting about one's abusive parent is offensive in the extreme to some people. It upsets their delicate sensibilities of how a good daughter or son should behave. We are not to have feelings. And we are certainly not allowed to express them. How dare we?
While this is sort of interesting, what's worth discussing is what people in real life think of us adult children of narcissists who have distanced ourselves from our toxic parents and how that impacts us.
We know the whole story and have made decisions accordingly. Outsiders can only see a small part. And because many of us children of narcissists have developed people pleasing tendencies, displeasing or disappointing people can really sting.
In fact, in the past, I've fallen all over myself trying to prove what a fabulous, responsible daughter I am. It was quite a show I put on...all for the benefit of neighbors, family friends and family members who didn't even like my father. Hah! The very same people who criticized me for placing him in an assisted living facility never called or visited him once!
Basically, I felt guilty as hell for being repulsed by my own father. This is something I've only recently been able to admit to. Because what kind of daughter has those sorts of dark and sinister feelings? An ungrateful, monstrous daughter. Naturally. I didn't like what those feelings said about me, so I pushed them away. Denied them. And became a raging hypochondriac instead. (I was also suppressing an incredible amount of anger, because my adoptive n-parents made me pretend I was their biological child.)
When I say hypochondriac, let me clarify. I did not seek attention for my imagined ailments. I mostly fretted about them 24/7 and nearly drove myself crazy with worry that I was dying of some as yet undetected disease de'jour.
Still, even though I drove my parents to doctor's appointments and brought over covered dishes of food and eventually took over managing their affairs, I heard through the grapevine that people were perplexed I wasn't doing more. Why I didn't visit more often. From their perspective, they saw a couple with an adopted kid who later bugged out of town to go to college and then basically disappeared for more than ten years, only to return after n-mom had been diagnosed with Alzheimers. I looked like an ungrateful lout who'd abandoned her badly aging parents.
This stung. Really, really stung. Because back then, I really cared what people thought of me. My entire persona was based on the good, dutiful daughter, until I couldn't stand it or them anymore and fled. When I returned, I resumed that role. And immediately became extremely anxious and hypochondriacal. Can anyone say Xanax? I self-medicated just to get through a visit with my parents.
It is with the greatest of effort that I am able to continue caring for my aging narcissistic father without falling into the trap of trying to prove to total strangers that I'm a fabulous, loving daughter. Because I'm not loving. Sometimes, it's more than enough to behave responsibly and morally. And I'm NOT judging those who've cut off their toxic parents. Believe me, if there was anybody else except me in nfather's life, I'd take that route, too. Sometimes, what we can do is what we can do. Plain and simple. Not caring about what others think can help set us free.
31 comments:
Hi Nina,
I wanted to respond to the last post but this is an even better place. I too struggle with wondering what others think of me for not living next door to my parents and falling all over them 24/7. I know my N a-mother is badmouthing me left, right, and center, so I do a minimal amount of telephoning just to not give her 100% satisfaction that I am truly the spawn of Satan. You're right, others have no clue what our lives were like, so they have no place to judge. It's hard when you've been conditioned to people-please, but we deserve a life too, and we deserve to live it on our own terms!
What I find interesting is that when people attack us for being "ungrateful" and etc., it's usually because they are jealous that we are able to live our lives and not be held prisoner 100% to the whims of our abusive parents (and to digress, I KNOW I was abused, esp. after reading the article you linked - thanks!). Specifically concerning our pal Anonymous, I find it really odd that someone got a random link to your blog, and not only felt the need to chastise you, but to come back to your blog multiple times to see if you had responded to the comment, etc. Wow! Only someone with something to hide or feel guilty about would bother. If I see things I don't like on a blog, I stop reading and move on, I don't engage in pointless, cowardly character assassination of the writer. In a way it's a compliment, because obviously YOUR reaction meant a great deal to Anonymous!
We know the truth, so keep on truckin' :)-Anne
Finding your blog has helped me soooo much, Nina, and I am grateful to you for letting those of us who didn't know where to turn know that WE ARE NOT ALONE. I was a chronic people-pleaser up until several years ago, and this was because I was conditioned in my youth to believe no one wanted to know anything of me but that I was valuable to my parents as a quiet, well-behaved, intelligent little girl who was a credit to their (my father's, specifically) greatness. These days, it does bother me when I am judged by people who don't know me, but only in the way that I get angry at the injustice; I no longer feel I am less of a person because someone who doesn't even know me or my family passes judgment. Anonymous: I hope there is the ability to find peace within yourself, because your anger at those whom you don't know would indicate a great many things have caused you grief, and I certainly do not wish that sort of hell on anybody. Good luck to you.
Enzgrl said it all very well.
..all for the benefit of neighbors, family friends and family members who didn't even like my father. Hah! The very same people who criticized me for placing him in an assisted living facility never called or visited him once!
I strongly believe that they do know what kind of soul suckers our parents are, why else would they never call or visit people like your father? But, they know these people need care and attention and who else to do the deed but the offsprings, caregivers by default. They certainly don’t want to do it. It’s easier for them to believe the offsprings are bunch of “ungrateful” spawns in order to alleviate any guilt they have over our situations, like we deserved it somehow (blame the victim stuff). I agree that Anonymous June 2, 2008 8:27 AM has something to hide and riddled with guilt and hence the effort to lessen of culpability of the abusers and call you “ungrateful”. It’s the same old paradoxical tactic: feel compassion for the abuser which lessen the culpability of the abuser, and hence feel good about ourselves.
Anna Valerious wrote in her blog her thoughts that Christians tends to be more susceptible to the manipulations of those with malignant narcissism personalities, made worse when counseled by various Christian friends and pastors minimizing the situation and telling them to pray more, speak in a soft voice, be submissive, and that they (not the abusers) have an anger problem. Well duh!
Hey Nina,
Really just a random comment because I've been away for a bit and just caught up on the last few posts. The way you describe the tension and anxiety you feel before seeing your parents -- I remember feeling that way every day when I came home from school. My mother also thought I was ungrateful -- we lived in a very nice house, I had clothes and lessons and all that sort of thing -- and appreciate that. But I'd have given up all of it to just get a little peace.
Another interesting topic, thank you for bringing it up. I also know my mother is telling the world what a bad daughter she has, how I live closer to her than my sisters and refuse to see her. Her stories are twisted to make her the victim, without an admission of her part in the (lack of) relationship. There is a large part of me that wants to write my other relatives to defend myself but I don't. For one, I don't have faith that my honest explanations and interpretations could be more believable than her fantastic, soap-opera versions of the truth. Second, part of me feels that airing the "dirty laundry" to the rest of the family puts me somehow in the same category as she is now, trying to gather troops for the war of the wills. And last, I've found that by blogging my story, like you are, I can come to a sort of peace. To see it in writing and have other say, yes, I understand, reinforces my belief that NC is the healthiest thing for me and my children where my NM is concerned.
Peace,
Pav
It’s funny…. I think the “trying to do the right thing” (or the people pleasing you mention for example) wasn’t so much for me… about other peoples perceptions of us…. I mean we had the ULTIMATE EXCUSE… he was a drunk…. it was always HIM and not a reflection on us. I don’t think I tried to please OTHER people… I was always trying to please or help or placating HIM!!!! And I think that making sure that everything was fine, on the surface and to avoid conflict, doing the right thing and not causing any waves WITHIN our system growing up was bigger to me…. than what anyone thought of us….. Until it wasn’t (angry teenage hormones struck) and I think some of the lessons I learned from an alcoholic narcissist I learned well… specifically… not giving a sh!t…. because I can CLEARLY recall…. I truly couldn’t give a sh!t LESS what people thought of me…(adults that is) in fact, the worst you think of me… the better….
i recently finished a book (it's a movie now) and it's SORDID, i'm almost embarrassed to admit i read it... BUT OMG the amount of narcissism throughout this book was INCREDIBLE (savage grace) and it was based on a true story... and it's funny how often i watch a news story, or read some political tidbit about someone... and wonder if anyone else realizes the narcissitic traits displayed... or if it's just me being a "hypocondriac"... i see narcissistic people
ENZGRL/ANNE: Does your mother badmouth your character or your lack of attention or both? I'm curious. I suspect that most parents do not seriously bad mouth their children. Maybe complain a bit...usually about teenagers. But if I ever heard an adult say bad things about their kid, I'd wonder about THEM. Still, I totally understand. It's mortifying to discover that the person who should be talking you up is talking you down.
And I'm with you. I've never left an angry anonymous comment...ever. I once disagreed with someone's point about adoption...but the point was to engage in a discussion. To advise a total stranger that they shouldn't feel a certain way...or to name call...is mystifying!
The whole thing is a double bind. If we are true to our emotions and try to hold on to some shred of ourselves, then we are monsters to The Onlookers and our people pleasing tendencies gnaw at us. If we give in and become The Good Children of the Ns, we open ourselves (and our families) to the mistreatment of the Ns, and we lose ourselves. No matter what we do, we are condemned. Our choice then is: shall we be condemned externally or internally?
I've belonged to communities where a large percentage of the members were either physically or sexually abused. It wasn't that long ago that such things were entirely taboo subjects. Such things, so the story went, were so rare as to not need any discussion. It sounded good and kept society from having to face the uncomfortable consequences. Now that we know such abuses aren't so rare, the sufferers of the abuse are gaining more access to resources. When someone speaks about it, there is comfort and understanding rather than a hushing response. ACONs still live with the hushing.
It's the reason after my father died I couldn't find support groups to help me with the confusing emotions of relief and apathy. Afterall, only ungrateful monsters feel that way, right? No.
Nina, I'm thankful to be coming at this from the other side, as it were. As the years pass, my emotions soften when it comes to my n father -- not in a way that justify his actions, but that my present no longer includes his physical presence or my need to deal with it. ACONs may never be free from the influences of the nasty parents we had, but when they're no longer a daily drain on us, the air becomes sweeter.
The hardest part of posts from people like your anonymous flamer is they have no idea how blessed they are to have parents who love them. I'm glad they have difficulty grasping what it's like to be raised by people who see their children as objects to be manipulated to fulfill their needs. I wouldn't mind being entirely ignorant about it myself.
Ella
BILLIE: As I read your comment, I thought more about our value as individuals. Starting out in life, it was defined by our nparents and constantly reinforced. Any deviation on our part was met with rejection. For people like us, it's very hard to transition from that to learning how to define ourselves. It takes a long, long time. I think that's why so many of us are emotional late bloomers.
ENILINA: I'll have to check out what Anna V. wrote about Christians. My family is Catholic and your summary really resonated. There are several narcissists in my family...one of the malignant variety..and the family's response was to a) say the person couldn't help it, was nervous and b) to forgive them and cater to them because they are family. In a way, this is the way some traditional families deal with mental illness to ensure that member is not excluded. So now you've got me fascinated.
Thank you for writing: "I strongly believe that they do know what kind of soul suckers our parents are, why else would they never call or visit people like your father? But, they know these people need care and attention and who else to do the deed but the offsprings, caregivers by default. They certainly don’t want to do it. It’s easier for them to believe the offsprings are bunch of “ungrateful” spawns in order to alleviate any guilt they have over our situations, like we deserved it somehow (blame the victim stuff)."
The ring of truth was so loud it was like a cowbell going off in my head! Funny. All the people who gave me advice - such as I must care for my parents in my own home - wouldn't look me in the eye. They'd say it and dash off. Or call. Hit and run advice.
MY DEAR FELLOW INGRATE/CELERA: As always, it's lovely to hear from you! So having a nice house wasn't much consolation, huh? I imagine not. A prison can be of any size, shape and style. I find it incredibly interesting that so many of us were called, "ungrateful" by our parents. Does this mean you - we -were acting like ingrates? Or just kids who knew no other way to live? Did this accusation mean they were disappointed in us somehow...that we were not compliant enough....were they expecting daily thank you's and unconditional love when we were not given it?
PAV: I can just imagine the stories your mother is telling to gain sympathy....and attention. And I agree. While it's darned tempting to want to set the record straight and defend oneself, it's a game your mother started and one you do not have to play. If you jump in, I suspect your mother would only escalate and give her cause to say...See...see..look how my daughter treats her own mother!
Somewhere in this blog, I shared what a therapist specializing in helping ACONs told me. Just in case you missed it, I'll tell you. I asked how most of his clients dealt with their n-parents. He said the healthiest ones broke off contact. My cousin also broke off all contact with her n-mom, who is far, far worse than my father. Even when she'd done everything she could to salvage the relationship...setting boundaries...steeling herself...her mother rolled right over whatever defenses she put up. So I suspect you are much better off with NC!
ROXTARCHIC: If your people pleasing was confined to your father...all the better...although just as distressing and exhausting and unrewarding. I wonder if you grew up with a stronger sense of self this way and made it easier to detach...because you weren't so worried about what others thought of you?
I'm not at all familiar with narcissism AND alcoholism...how they are linked...but that had to be tough. Your dad is sober now, right?
That book you read is called Savage Grace? I'm like you, btw....I often wonder about people I who are interviewed on TV or radio and they talk a certain way. As a matter of fact, there was a bit about Picasso being a flaming narcissist and now I can't look at his paintings!
ELLA,
Sometimes I forget how fast society changes. I mean, not long ago, people didn't even talk about cancer...let alone stuff like abuse. It seems like half the population is opening up and being honest and the other half is doing the hushing! BTW, I loved that...hushing. I can't tell you how many times I've been hushed! I'm sure you have been, too!
Truthfully... i think we were lucky he was a drunk. i've talked w/my sister about this recently as a matter of fact, she agrees.... he would have been capable of soooo much more manipulation if he was at full functioning capacity. who KNOWS how much more mental anquish that would have inflicted altho the drunken father and the whole mess of a family structure that creates was no walk in the park... i just think he would have been worse straight & focused fully on himself (and not just focused on his drinking)!
hah.. i can't even believe i'm saying thankfully i had a drunk for a father... what a unbelievable sad fact that is.
& yeah the book is called savage grace, so is the movie (w/julianne moore) there's incest and murder and all of that tragic stuff involving a legendary family (the descendants of bakelite creator)... but the book is written from the perspective of the 'connected observers' which were all these society and famous people of the day... and their interviews on the murder & relationship at the heart of the book... it was just incredible to read all of their stories & all of these self absorbed narcissistic people (and there were soooo many of them) created this madman out of a promising child... and then talk about THEMSELVES in relation to the whole thing... haha.. it was hard to put down AND hard to read at the same time. (if you wanna read it i can mail it to you... just email me)
Ha! I rather enjoy being an ungrateful daughter.
Why not? I was regarded as, and treated as, an ungrateful daughter for...oh let's see...37 years. At year 38, I said, Well, if you can't fight 'em, join 'em--what would it be like to stop trying to please people who can't be pleased?
What it's meant, thus far, is that for the first time in my life I feel alive...not like I am waiting for the next shoe to drop. I've never been so healthy or felt so secure within myself.
My brother, who moved far away, is doubtlessly now the target of my N-mom's whining and rages (my father is schizoid personality disorder, still narcissistic but less overt). I feel sorry for him.
I would say that what other people might think of us as adult children matters not one bit. Give them a book or two by Alice Miller and let them read before they judge you.
I might also add that I am taking my life experience with Ns and applying it toward earning a mental health degree so I can help other escapees from N environments. I laugh out loud every time I imagine what my N-mother would think of my doing this. She would be appalled!
A tip: if you set boundaries and the other person chooses to violate them...and the relationship ends...it ends by their CHOICE. Being narcissistic does NOT mean being unable to control behavior. It is not a disorder like PTSD or schizophrenia or bipolar where people truly lose control of what is happening.
You set boundaries, they choose to violate boundaries...they are choosing to end the relationship. Never forget this. People do not argue you with you when you say, "I do not have a relationship with my parents, by THEIR choice, and I am at peace with it."
Hugz
Wily
I am 39 and have not been in contact with anyone in my immediate family for the last ten years. However, it is unreal how many relatives (who LOVE my mother) find it their business to approach me and question me on my bad behavior. Now, I know I haven't done anything bad by leaving them alone. (They are also not trying to contact me.) But no-one knows this. I am wondering if it might just be a relief to just be that bad, to say the most awful things in response to them. I am just not sure what I would say that would support their horrible opinions of me. It's like realizing now that being "good" did me no good at all. Wouldn't it be more fun to be bad? It's all just a false narrative out there anyway.
AFTER BECKETT:
Catching up, sorry for the delay in responding.
Welcome to the Bad, Ungrateful Daughter Club. Now that I'm in my forties, I'm learning to not care what other family members think of me. If relatives are sticking their noses in your business, I think they deserve a) the unvarnished truth...just a sentence that sums it up...no details...no need to get defensive. Just a simple summation of your version of why you went no contact. Then refuse to discuss it further. My second cousin did this...with very good results. Her mother is a narcissist and the entire family always catered to her/excused her behavior and expected her daughter to the same.
I am now -- finally -- estranged from my n-father. He recently sent my siblings a rambling 40 page memo on the commandment to honour your parents -- and used me as the example of being dishonourable. In his definition, honouring your parents means agreeing with them 100%, being loyal to them even when they ask you to do something against your own moral code (like cutting your step-mother of 20 years out of your life because they divorced)
Hi,
I have been very interested to hear all of your intelligent and well reasoned thoughts.I am 53.I found out about my mother by googling," No Bond with adult Child."I then found Narcisstic Parent and frankly all the boxes were ticked for me.
I wish I had found out sooner,but I am glad before I did the ultimate and gave up the rest of my life in having her into my home when the time comes.Out of duty I would have done it.
She is 80 years old.but looks and acts much younger.The last time I had her to stay I was ill for around two months after she left.The emotional daggers she throws are ruthless.
I early retired at50,having for a woman of my generation got to a top postion in the police force ,with all the degrees etc to go with it.I mention this only to reinforce that I have dealt with child abuse all my working life and knew that my mother was abusive but couldnt work out how or where it was coming from.
She has been difficult all of our lives.I am one of three sisters.I left home at 16,ran a way as I couldnt stand the scenes.I read somewhere that they have flare ups at important times.My wedding was an example of that.I have always thought that there wasn't something quite right,even discussing with one of my sisters senility,nothing ticked all the boxes until now.No Birthday presents,Xmas presents that were things given to her years ago wrapped in newspapers after my sister and I gave her beautiful thoughtful gifts.Years of no emphathy,or feeling.Consistent things started to become noticable.That she only flared up in private.When I took her on holidays such as a cruise,she acted out.We put it down to her low boredom threshold,that she kicked off in my home as we live in rural tranquility.Even when she kick off and storms out she can walk around the village twice and not see another person.No one to feed off of.
She constantly engaged strangers,smiling and nattering till she gets noticed.Worse still having no boundaries she felt comfortable bragging about me and my life and telling complete strangers about what I had done and where I lived etc.Not least because of my previous job I dont engage readily with strangers.and take time to build relationships.I am even nervous doing this blog.I understand the pain of the Love thy mother and father stuff,My father who was an alcholic used to quote it all the time.He was more nuturing .I could never work out if he drunk because of her.He stopped and lived quite a reclusive life.She has reinvented history and the hands of this alcoholic abusers.Frankly when I was at home it was her that kicked off,not my dad.
My mum ignores my older daughter and her two greatgrandaughters.When I speak about then to her she puckers up her face and says.Just leave me alone and spend time with YOUR Family in the most nasty resentful way.She ignores all their birthdays.Yet on a cruise she will try to engage families with little children. I say yes, they are lovely children but I do have grandchildren of my own I dont need to engage other peoples,( to try to get her to understand what she is doing but it never sinks in.)For years I have had a fab figure but since I have retired I have put on weight.My husband still thinks I look great.Recently when I visited my mum,her friend said to me. You look well.My mothers response was, But she is fat........
Anyway anyone on this blog will know the years of painful conflicts over nothing.My mother constantly says I never want to see you again over the littlest of things,when she was younger she packed her case constantly went around the block and came back again.
Recently I took her on holiday,she constantly argued and caused chaos over nothing.Whilst I waited on her hand foot and finger.She dosnt cook, never has. I said to her mum now you are eighty dont you think it would be lovely for you to leave me with some lovely memories of this time we are spending together so that when you pass I can think back on them and remember you fondly.She screwed her face up and looked at me straight in the eye and said NUP..That was the final turning point for me.I live in a different country and will now manage the situation with my new found knowledge.Like others even before I knew what she was I had discussed with my sister it was like being with an emotional vampire.As such I too have a gut instinctfor Ns.I called it my Emperors got no clothes on eyes.I worked with one and eventually gained support in challenging his bullying but that got him promoted.Recently we had neighbours who bought a holiday home in the village.His lack of personal boundaries arriving at our home when he liked and not taking no for an answer when the door wasnt answered amongst some things,left me cold.I couldnt explain what it was that made me feel so uncomfortable.I now know its my natural n scanner at work.Reading over my comments Ican understand how a strangers might think my mother is a proud social person who likes to brag about her children.They do not see her five minutes later breathing heavily and sending poisoned dagger eyes across a room with the message you are going to have it because I challenge her behaviour.
I am not a whinger and my pain threshold is very high.It takes a lot of courage to stand up to any bully.Some people just dont understand that parents can be selfish bullys,who enjoy winding up and upsetting their children as the norm.I have thought of it before but Iam going to be my own mother now and I am going to make sure every day that I am taking good care of myself.
Hi, thank you for your blog Nina.
I am at a point where I think it would probably be a good idea to break off contact entirely with my family but it is so painful and I feel crazy and horrible. (It's a toxic stew of N parents and their victims- including N siblings and sibs that benefit from the disorder. There's a pecking order.)
Here's the thing that sucks about Narcissistic parents- it is so subtle that's it is crazymaking. People, that you need for support such as friends and extended family, can't help you because it is a pattern of behavior (which is more difficult to describe) rather than isolated instances of obviously bad behavior.
Sometimes I think it would have been so much easier if my parents had been physically or sexually abusive because I, as well as others, could point to the wound and immediately understand it and react appropriately and proportionally. I mean, you don't see CPS removing children from emotionally abusive parents like those from physically abusive homes. Why? because it is so subtle. And the subtlety makes it more damaging, long-term, painful, and difficult.
I actually discovered the diagnosis for my parents while reading about the Virginia Tech shooter. His psychological description as a narcissist matched my parents (aside from the murder situation) to a T. Disturbing.
The point is- the VA Tech shooter has the same profile as my normal/happy-looking parents and family but how do I describe that to anyone (including myself) without creating, at a minimum, serious disbelief and, at a maximum, the belief that I am delusional/ungrateful/unforgiving/hateful/over-reactive/over-sensitive/crazy?
I want my parents to all of a sudden go "oh sorry for all the irrational and disgusting behavior." I would forgive them immediately. Now I'm being delusional. After 35 years I have to give up that dream to save my sanity.
Thank you for giving me a forum to say that.
Nina, thank you for your important blog.
I was just reading that recent comment from the person who has the 80 yr. old mother.
Mine is almost 90 and is still serviing up gossip, ugly comments about others and general dissatisfaction with the people who live in her building.
I can relate to the gift problem, also. Holidays and birthdays come and go, but the ones that stand out are the ones that sting. When I was a little girl, I remember stacking up my stuff away from my brother's gifts Christmas morning after I had opened them. I never got any gifts any other time throughout the year, so Christmas was heart-pounding for me. My aunt came over that day, and I heard her say something to my mother that we didn't get much..and heard my mother say something about now that the kids are older, they were not expecting that much (too old for Santa, etc..) Then my mother came over to me and quietly told me not to stack my stuff, but to spread it out so it "would look like more". When I was middle-aged, I remember her coming over and giving me a set of dishes (new from the store) which I liked. However, the "other" gift was heart-wrenching. She wrapped up a pair of earrings that my husband and I had given her a few years earlier. They had tiny diamonds, with flower petals around the edge and were white gold. She said that since she only wore "gold" now, she didn't need them anymore. I gulped and said "But they ARE gold, white gold." She said "Well, you know what I mean...I only wear yellow gold." to make matters worse, I saw that she had cut a little squae of cardboard and poked the earrings through to hold them. Poorly cut cardboard. And her eyes weren't good at that point, but I could see that the backings of the pierced earrings were different. One was 12K gold and matched the earrings, and the other was some silver-colored backing that didn't even go with it. She does things like this with a smile. Is there no regard for MY feelings? That was a gift that I had picked out for her, and thought she liked them. My brother was "golden" and now as an adult I look back, and realize that he spent most of my life, until I was 19 and had a steady boyfriend, pushing, shoving me, or punching me, etc..and when I was little, always trying to molest me. I learned to keep a distance from people to keep safe. Although she would scold him for hitting me now and again..I look back today and think that any parent could have corrected his behavior within, say one season, or a few months. But it was allowed all of my growing up years. I always had bruises on my arms, legs, etc.. I had no one to protect me. Isn't that what parents do, protect their kids? Once I climbed into bed with my father as a snuggly 6 year old and his body pressed against mine. I didn't know what that was, but knew it was bad. He said something like "Oops...don't tell your mother. And as I quickly got away, feeling scared, he told me to come back. I spent my whole life making sure I was never alone in the same room with him. I didn't understand, but I was scared. Who would save or protect me? Today she is almost 90, likes to complain to me, talks up my father like he was the best....I secretly picture someday just lowering the boom on her and telling her what I lived through, when she complains and acts like "woe is me...nothing's the same anymore...I'm all alone". She had a cushy life and never even had to work.
I have stuggled with low income most of my life. But I have a beautiful family now.
I am also a Christian now and try to reconcile honoring my parent. My mother mocks my beliefs.
I know what you mean about the "honor the parent" code. I have been called a liar too. I don't even know how I survived physically, because I was just tossed out of the house with just clothes on my back. Even police wouldn't believe me about my mother when a roommate changed the locks. They do this because they can smell out that you've been abused by a narcissist parent. Then the police tell you to call your mother. It's unreal. She even sent my brothers to wherever i was to torture me and get me fired from jobs.
Is it illegal to "out" a parent by name on a blog??
I spoke to one my aunts yesterday who wanted to know if I was aware of the state my mom is in. I am.
I live several states away and my siblings are nearer--but they are pretty tired of catering to her,so one of her sisters has been doing so now. Well of course this draws attention to it and everyone thinks what terrible kids. I guess that's what they think. But they have no idea what this woman has done and is doing. She is basically doing NOTHING for herself out of her unhappiness that she cannot afford to stay in her home anymore. She refuses to face the fact that when you spend all your money on junk and don't pay your bills you can end up old and have no means to pay for the lifestyle you like.
So basically she has habitually lied and gotten money from folks who pity her now for I don't know how long, and some of them have figured it out. Those who haven't yet.. well they wonder why it is so difficult for those near her to be near her.
I honestly do not know what to do next, nor do my siblings. This is why I've been looking for info on narcissism--I'm pretty sure that's the problem. Honor? boy-- that's a painful tough thing-- you try, but sooner or later you also need to warn folks I think.
I have never blogged before so I hope I'm doing it the correct way!! This is a message for Roxtarchi: You mentioned in your blog last year that you had a read a book basked on a true story, which has now become a movie. Could you please tell me the name of the book?? I would greatly appreciate it. I am a 49-year-old daughter of both parents being narcissistic, so this blog is extremely interesting for me. Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated :-)
Hello, I'm new here and I wanted to applaud everyone with the challenges they've faced with their n-parents (in fact, I didn't even know there was a technical term for it before coming here).
In my situation, starting from the age of 10, I had a feeling that I wouldn't be spending my adult years with my parents. My sister, being slightly senior to me, thought she could make a difference but instead, slipped into depression and a type of manic histrionic disorder herself.
Since she'd come of age, she had difficulties maintaining jobs and I guess she's supposedly happy but in a sense, her husband is one of these so-called nice guys who's always trying to keep a buffer between her and the parents. Today, she's been out of work for more than a decade and her husband is still burdened with dealing with the n-parents.
For me, I'm in my thirties and haven't spoken with the n-parents since my mid-twenties. I even hired an attorney to periodically send out warning letters before finally hitting 'em with a restraining order. That's closed the door forever. While for some time, I was able to do all these things in a calculated manner, the sense of guilt and anger stayed until I'd started meditating and taking care of myself. I wish you all the best with whatever way you find for yourself.
There is one thing which I want to pass out and that is, don't feel that you can engage 'em like a rational adult. Any attempt at humanizing the relationship will fail and could actually put you in a greater pickle than before. This I'd learned from my sister, as I'd given up, long before my parents had ruined her adult life. I also don't communicate with my sister either, as she's unable to break the cycle and now needs others to prop up her own dysfunctional family.
Hi Nina. I have very recently started looking into Narcassistic Personalitity Disorder(NPD) as i am experiencing my own what I think to be Narcassistic behaviour from a vedry close family member and I am going out of my mind.
I too seem to fall over myself wanting people to recognise that I am a worthy person for doing thte things I do for my Mother although she deflates me any chance she gets in the recent years. I kinda diagnosed the symptoms of NPD a few years ago but did not know there was a name for it. As things have got worse I have looked for help and have come up with NPD which is a relief I can tell you as now I know it is not me who has a problem.
I do not think you are cold and uncaring and people who think that are ignorant toward other people and their situations as they do not know the whole story. They obviously cannot imagine having to be under scrutiny from one person for years and what effect it has on a person - no matter how old they are! Even adults still want and need some posotive feedback from their parent/s.
I am so glad I have found other people who share this experience - it makes me feel as though I am not alone in my plite. I have not spoke to my mum in for over a week since she threw something at me. I don't know when I will speak to her again - if ever!
I am responsible for my own life and will not let anybody manipulate my feelings no matter who it is! I am not a cold person and don't really need to tell people that, but I have been too warm and loving with nothing to show for it so now it's time to take one's leave I think and focus on me!
Good luck in the future. Stay strong.
"What I find interesting is that when people attack us for being "ungrateful" and etc., it's usually because they are jealous that we are able to live our lives and not be held prisoner 100% to the whims of our abusive parents"
EnzGirl:
Yes! So true! I find that people who come from "close" [read: controlling] families are envious of our autonomy in our adulthood.
I know plenty of people who come from "ideal" families. In certain ways, they truly ARE good families, but they are raised too strictly, and are so cocooned that they end up terribly naive & clueless & also constantly desperate for parents' approval.
That's the one positive I take from my upbringing that might shed some light for all of you: we have become independent and self-defined. And also very, very compassionate.
I can't figure out why I am not an N & some siblings ARE, but I am looking at the good: I made it, and I am tough!
-Julie
Part of the reason people think we are evil is because Ns, master manipulators that they are, paint themselves as the victims of OUR behavior. This excellent list (http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm) of the characteristics of N mothers goes into this in part. It's about N mothers but is rather universal to Ns in my experience.
One of my fave excerpts:
"You’re over-reacting, like you always do. She’ll talk to you when you’ve calmed down and aren’t so irrational. She may even characterize you as being neurotic or psychotic.
Once she’s constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she’ll tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn’t do anything. She has no idea why you’re so irrationally angry with her. You’ve hurt her terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she just doesn’t know what to do. You keep pushing her away when all she wants to do is help you."
Another excellent excerpt:
"As a last resort she goes pathetic. When she’s confronted with unavoidable consequences for her own bad behavior, including your anger, she will melt into a soggy puddle of weepy helplessness. It’s all her fault. She can’t do anything right. She feels so bad. What she doesn’t do: own the responsibility for her bad conduct and make it right. Instead, as always, it’s all about her, and her helpless self-pitying weepiness dumps the responsibility for her consequences AND for her unhappiness about it on you. As so often with narcissists, it is also a manipulative behavior. If you fail to excuse her bad behavior and make her feel better, YOU are the bad person for being cold, heartless and unfeeling when your poor mother feels so awful."
my dads been a teacher/etc,for 37 years and only recently in the last 3-5 years he's been slowly declining in his overall personality that at what one time made him alot of fun to be around,we lost 2 family members in succession "05-06" the one that beared the most impact was my grandfather,in the 3-5 years my dad was promoted 2x once to Principal & Once To Superintendent,it was with the 2nd promo that things really started downhill rapidly,he really started acting much more arrogant,selfishly,and its to the point he's actually resorted to constant verbal abuse and has a few times used physical intimidation as a way of power
This is why I distanced myself from my friends in school. I would tell them how horrible my n-dad was, how hurtful he was. But then they would meet him and act like I made it all up. My dad is very very good at holding up a normal mask when he wants. After meeting him they would be like "hes not that bad." Yeah, even a therapist did this. Everyone who has done this, I automatically have distanced myself from them. I can't even deal with that level of hurt. To have others not get it, just adds salt to the wounds.
I'm 22 and I'm in the middle of this battle right now. My parents are self centered and think it is my role as an adoptive daughter to be grateful and submissive, and I've ended up falling into the trap and losing friends and people who were important to me time and time again. Think like they think, do as they say (not necessarily as they do), and if you step out of line, you are ungrateful and the whole neighborhood thinks so. I feel like I want to cave into the floor.
Fortunately, I've found a guy who is supportive of allowing me to be happy for me, but now he wants me to move away to maryland with him. (I'm from New York). He thinks that after the hump, I'll finally allow myself to be free and not find myself miserable at 50 years old, waiting for my 90-something parents to die.
He doesn't realize how afraid I am. To leave the comfort of a job they've given me, the things they've given me (with the constant reminder of how grateful I should be!), the apartment they've given me (but send me 3 day notices if I pay the rent late--side note they're monstrously wealthy)....I just feel trapped. Like I'm going to kill them if I just do what I want for "me".
I'm so happy I found this website. I am even glad to read the comments from haters. It makes me feel like my world is finally normal for once.
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