If you're trying to figure out if you have a narcissistic parent, there are lots of nifty checklists in self-help books to help you do just that.
Basically, you score your parent on a whole bunch of different traits. Things they do or say or don't do.
There's one I'd like to add.
Would you, could you....ever go to your parent for comfort if you ever had a problem?
How would they react if you did?
How would you feel after you confided in them?
I never, ever would have taken a problem to my mother or father.
I quickly learned, probably as a young child, that no comfort would be forthcoming. In fact, I discovered I then had the additional burden of reassuring them it wasn't a big deal and that they shouldn't worry. Later, I realized that any drama I might have would turn into their drama.
Some examples:
***When I was around ten, I had to have a growth removed from my forehead. This required an overnight stay at the hospital and a biopsy. My self-centered adoptive mom carried on saying, "You don't know what you're putting me through" and generally making a fuss about how terribly worried and upset she was because the growth might be cancerous (it was not). Apparently not worried enough to stay overnight with me at the hospital. This she refused to do because it was, "too boring" and uncomfortable. Adoptive Dad had the good sense to realize this made them look like bad parents, but he couldn't make her stay although he tried. They even argued about this. He couldn't stay because he needed a good night's sleep because he had to work the next day. It fell to me to reassure them that I'd be fine by myself. I presented a cheerful face to them and the nurses.
***When I was around sixteen, my much beloved first boyfriend broke up with me. I held it together long enough to escape into the house, where I burst into tears. Amom rushed into the living room and asked me what the hell was wrong. So I explained. She was furious. About as angry as I'd ever seen her. How dare I scare her like that? She thought I'd been raped, the way I was carrying on. Then she slapped me. And sent me to my room. "For God's sake, he's just a guy. Get over it." Any mention or tear shed for him earned me an angry lecture. So I had to hide my misery.
***Fast forward to middle age. I mentioned to Adad that I was acting distracted because I was worried about a biopsy I'd just had and was waiting for the results. He panicked. "What's going to happen to me if you die?" he demanded. "You're all I got!" I asked if he shouldn't be more worried about his poor granddaughters who would be left motherless. He said, "Forget them, they have their father to take care of them. If you die, I've got nobody." So much for any comfort. He then called, repeatedly, to ask for the results of the biopsy...which only added to my stress. When I told him my good news (negative), he said, "Thank God!" and said, "You don't know what you've put me through," then announced he had to hang up and take a nap because he, "could finally relax."
See how this works? Or didn't work. No comfort. No reassurance. No sage advice or wise words to help their child through a tough time. There will be no hugs or cards or phone calls to say, Just Thinking of You. They will not ask, What Do You Think About All This? or Gee, You Must Be So Worried." There will be no acknowledgment of your pain or whatever challenge you face. There is only them and what they "are going through."
Maybe this works differently in other dysfunctional homes with a narcissistic parent. Don't know. Maybe the kid gets a free pass when it comes to illness and the child finally gets some quality attention. I have a cousin with a narcissistic mother. She dealt with this by never admitting she was sick, even if she was staggering around with the flu. She even "worked sick" and dragged herself to school sick as a dog.
As always, please feel free to leave a comment if you have any observations or any experience you'd like to share.
24 comments:
Maybe this works differently in other dysfunctional homes with a narcissistic parent. Don't know. Maybe the kid gets a free pass when it comes to illness and the child finally gets some quality attention.
Nope, same here ufortunately. I'm getting really really really really tired of waiting for my parents (and others) to change, to become the loving caring parents I always wanted and needed. I'm beginning to think it's an illusion (not love itself but love from my parents).
How many years before I realize that my parents just don't have it in them, or if they have it in them it's hidden so deep that it might never see the light of day?
You know what I mean Nina? I'm just so tired of hoping, waiting, dreaming, and making excuses for someone who never gives anything and might not even be able. I feel like I'm waiting for a horse to lay an egg or something. Or a turtle to jump. It's just not there. Time to let it go.
wow. My aparents would sign me into to emergency room and leave. I had to call them when I was taken care of. UGH! (((((((nina)))))
My observation is that your adopters were narcissists to the nth degree. And my nasty NPD mother is right there with them, of course.
Have you read "People of the Lie" yet Nina? The author, Peck, really gets to the core of NPD.
What your adopters did to you is disgusting. So de-valuing, so de-humanizing. I hope your female adopter is rotting in hell, and your male adopter will be joining her soon there.
What you have described here is EXACTLY the kind of treatment my NPD mother has dished out to me for years. I don't know if you remember from my blog, but she called the police on me one time when I was very sick and wouldn't/couldn't get out of bed.
Fuck 'em all.
Bob,
As my husband says (repeatedly), "Quit looking in the well. It's dry." But I'm with you. No matter how many times my parents have failed because they lack empathy, I keep peering over the rim. There's a lot of talk these days about magical thinking. I suspect that's what we're doing.
Bob: It's is time to let go. It was probably time a long time ago. But we're wired, I believe, to hang on to this most basic of relationships. I think it takes an enormous amount of effort to let go. And practice. And lots of backsliding.
Same with you, huh? No Free Pass or Day Off for Sickies, either? Heavy sigh.
MARY: I can see narcissistic parents just don't do hospital settings. I just can't IMAGINE how the brains of such people work. You'd think they'd, at least, be embarrassed to act in such a heartless manner. I'm sorry that happened to you! That's awful.
Ooo...it's always lovely to hear from you, Elizabeth...
And yeah, I remember that story - clearly! - about your NPD mom.
And I did get People of the Lie and started it...but I accidentally left it outside and it got ruined so I need to get another copy. I had no clue THAT was what that book was about. I thought it was about the nature of evil...whatever that means. But I'm looking forward to reading it because you and many others I like highly recommend it.
Elizabeth, Sorry...the last bit I wrote got cut off somehow. Anyway, I have found it very helpful to compare notes and details not so much to wallow in the awfulness of our stories...but to see how narcissists operate. It's so unbelievable that a mother would call the police on her daughter thinking she was defiant or lazy or whatever...instead of sick as a dog and needing help. I mean, that is such a warped vision.
Hi Nina,
My last comment was never published & I wasn't sure if I had offended you or anything. I apologize if I did. Or it might have just been me and a computer glitch.
Anyway, I wanted to comment on the part about going to your parents for help with a problem. My divorced parents both LOVED it when I would come to them with problems. They would BASK in my having gone to them with problems, practically wallowing in them with me. Asking me for all the details.
Then, they'd go and tell everyone (aunts, uncles, co-workers etc.) about my problems, the point being they got to advertise their close relationship with me.
The best was when they could surprise someone else and get to say "oh why, she didn't tell YOU?"
It's been years since I shared a THING with either of my parents, as they are the equivalent of walking newsletters.
All just ways to take someone else's experience and absorb it into something all about the narcissist.
Anonymous...
Oh no! I do not moderate or reject comments...I welcome ALL...so it must have been a glitch. I'm glad you came back and posted again.
Hah! This IS a new twist. Sheesh. Talk about a betrayal of trust! I swear, it sounds like your parents were operating like gossipy high schoolers instead of bonified grown-ups...people who upped their status by certain kinds of association. Blech.
Yeah. It's all about the narcissist...whether they ignore you or violate trust and confidentiality.
Heh, I used to wish my amom would ignore me. But her thing was always blame. Anything that was wrong with me was like something I had done on purpose to be annoying.
Once, I remember I had gone ice skating and fell on my back, hitting my head. My mother was watching TV when I got home and told her my head hurt a bit because of the fall. She yelled at me that a blow to the back of the head was especially dangerous and sent me to bed, where I was to lie still and hope I don't die.
She must have done more than that, because I was in her bed, so maybe she even called a doctor or something. But I remember that she went back to the other room to watch TV while I laid in bed hoping not to die.
What' weird is if that happened to someone else I would think it was horrible, but when I look back on it myself it's just, one more time my mom was crazy.
Oh, The Road Less Traveled and People Of the Lie are awesome books. Changed my life when I first read them 25 years ago.
Yes this sounds familiar. I learned never to seem vulnerable with my parents. It just made them angry. It still makes them angry.
When I was going to sit for my A'Levels I was having a lot of trouble. It looked like I wouldn't pass. My mother asked me if I felt like dropping out and repeating the year and I said yes. Boy did she lay into me! She said well I don't get a refund of your tuition money so you are just going to have to stick it out.
I understand she was upset about losing the money but I just don't understand why she would even ask me that if she knew that she absolutely wouldn't consider letting me drop out. I felt really angry with myself for yet again giving her an opportunity to shred me.
They keep saying if you need money just come to us. Ask for help but I know that in order to get that money I will have to endure long lectures about how I spend my money and why can't I manage my finances and I know we said you should ask if you needed help but when are we going to stop having to take care of you. I would rather have bad credit than ask them for help.
I want to ask when you were a child and your parents lectured you, how long did the lectures last. My mother could go on with little input other than yes mum , no mum for hours at a strech. I'm talking like 4-6 hours.
We have a better relationship now. mainly because we don't talk. When I go to visit her at the weekend, i think we might have 20 minute of conversation from Saturday to Sunday. Sometimes I want to reach out to her and share my thoughts and my aspirations but I know that she will listen and then fuck me up verbally. My mother has made grown men cry.
Anything, even seemingly mundane things can set her off. When we were children and we were waiting at the airport for my dad to pick us up, we were watching one of the cleaners clean the marble floor. My brother made the mistake of saying that he felt sorry for the man because people were walking over the areas that he had just cleaned. That earned him a lecture that lasted for days. The whole 2 weeks we were on vacation she kept bringing it up, at the airport 2hrs appr., at the dinner table, in the car. She could not let it go.
When she calls, I can hear the longing in her voice and I know that she wants me to come see her. But I also know that when I go to visit there is always the chance that she is going to be incredibly unpleasant.
Sorry its so long
Ah yes, those long repetitive lectures. It is as if they are stuck on the hamster wheel fueled by the bottomless pit of whines and complaints. Both my n-parents are professors and when I nearly got held back in 3rd grade, their solution is to lecture me for 3 hour lectures every night instead of helping me on my homework. The lectures consist of 1) how stupid I am, 2) what great and cute kids THEY were, and 3) how stupid I am, and 4) how much their own siblings admire them even though said siblings have WRONGED them. N-Dad thought he was so special and smart that any government would want to kidnap him and take him to an island filled with super smart people like him. I am not making this up.
Nina, you're so correct about the non-comfort factor. As kids the don't-go-to-parent-for-comfort kicks in pretty early, but it doesn't stop up from trying. I vividly recall the one time as a teenager I did go to my mom, not so much for comfort but to shut her up.
She was doing on and on about how aweful and hard her life is. True because dad was a first class jerk, but she was completely oblivious to how much her kids were suffering as well, it was all about her for the upteenth time every day every week every month every year. Finally I confessed I had tried to commit suicide a month earlier, I just couldn't take hearing her complaints one more second. Once I said it all the buried pain bursted forth and I started crying. For the first time in memory Mom was quiet. A minute later she left the kitchen and I didn't see for the rest of the day. Later that evening she sent in my oldest sister to my room where I was studying to deal with my awkward confession. I sent my sister away after a few minutes after assuring her it was no big deal.
DEAR (ENGLISH?) A-LEVEL ANONYMOUS,
No post is ever too long!
It seems some parents use money to assist their grown children - with some necessary guidance and groundrules - while others use it as a cruel cudgel of control. Sure, go ahead, ask for the cash. But's going to cost you some serious skin.
Question: Are you the youngest? Sometimes, parents seem to work to make the youngest more dependent...often using money as a tool...so that adult "child" still needs them. Instead of gentling nudging their child toward independence, they do all they can to sabotage them...undermining their confidence, etc. I guess you don't have to be the youngest for this to happen. Maybe it's enough that you were the girl? Dunno.
Your poor brother. There he was, showing empathy for a fellow human being - a VERY admirable trait - and he was endlessly lectured for his sensitivity. Narcissists lack empathy. I wonder if that's what set your mother off?
As for the length of the lectures...Oh My God. Mercifully, no. My parents were simply too inarticulate to carry on for that long...which HAD to be absolute torture for you and your bro. Yikes. Instead of a tongue lashing, I was subjected to the ice cold silent treatment that sometimes would go on for weeks. My mother would pretend I didn't exist and look right through me. I never realized this was cruel or abusive until I read Alice Miller's Drama of the Gifted Child. Miller's mother did the same thing to her.
You said you could hear the longing in your mother's voice and you know she'd like to see you. How terribly sad. My dad gets that way, too. He longs for human contact. Of course! But when they get it - or you - instead of LEARNING that their past behavior has resulted in isolation and MODIFYING their behavior, they can't help themselves and leech off you...scolding or talking endlessly about themselves so that you feel diminished and invisible and worthless.
Take care...looking forward to hearing from you again.
ENILINA,
Wow. Your parents soooo fit the classic textbook definition of the narcissistic parent...hah! Both professors! I got stuck with the other kind of narcissist...the uneducated one who thinks he smarter than everybody else...but I suspect having a self-absorbed PROFESSOR would be far, far worse. It's not like your dad was a total idiot and you at least had that with which to comfort yourself. Blech.
These kinds of people are singularly unsuited to helping a child deal with a challenge...such as school...in a healthy way. No doubt they saw your struggle as a personal affront. Because they didn't see you as YOU, but an extension of themselves.
I can't imagine what that must have been like for you back then...and now. Reforming battered self-esteem is hard work.
Whoa. The fact that your mother couldn't deal with such a huge and painful admission of a suicide attempt is so incredibly sad. How alone you must have felt. And let down. And then you had to expend the effort to reassure your sister?
I think children of narcissists are true survivors. You - we - are stronger than we think.
Very nice to meet you!
I have just found your wonder, informative blog and wanted to thank you for sharing the advice from the geriatric specialist -- it was just the advice I needed for I am dealing with an aging, sick (both mentally and phsycially) father. Finding this blog is like finding gold to me!
OMG Anonymous! You just made my day. I'm so glad you found the advice helpful. I can't remember if I said this in my post, but my father has been in the facility for several years now and it was one of the best decisions I made. This way, his difficult personality is "spread around" and they are trained not to personalize behavior. I wish you the best of luck in dealing with your father. It's so hard to think clearly during such a difficult, emotional time...especially if you are battling Guilt. Take care of yourself, Nina
My sister and I decided a while back never to go to our parents with problems. It was somehow always our fault and would turn into a rant from our NPD dad on how everyone in the world can't be trusted, of COURSE this happened - bad things always happen to our family - we are unlucky, we are cursed. And god forbid you needed to ask for money (for example while in college, for a surprise car repair) this would be held over your head and used as a means to control you. I learned long ago that I would sooner rack up ridiculous charge card bills than ask my parents for ANYTHING. And I never tell them when bad things happen to me anymore, I believe my father gets a certain joy out of "proving" his theory that the world is evil and we are cursed.
On another note about comfort, I was such a stressed out and anxious kid, from living with my maniac father, that from 2nd grade through 9th grade at the beginning of the school year, I would spend every morning for all of September dry heaving over the bathroom sink before school due to nerves & anxiety. Did anyone try to help me? Comfort me? Get me a therapist? No. I was told, "You are doing this to yourself. You are making yourself sick. Just knock it off." Can you feel the love?
Thanks for your blog, Nina, I love it!
Erin,
I tell ya, NPD parents are Big Fat Blamers...never take responsibility for anything that happens, never say they're sorry or never take anything with a grain of salt...like the car repair you mentioned. I mean, if you have a car, it's going to eventually need to be fixed. While annoying because of the expense, it's only to be expected. But it seems that the regular stuff of life must always be ratcheted up so that it's high drama. And in the case of your father, evidence of the curse.
Sheesh. How could you NOT be anxious as a kid with all those pronouncements of doom and gloom? With your father so out of control - there was no protection, just exposure. I sooo relate to this. I myself was an extremely anxious child. And then an adult. Nice to meet you, Erin!
Hi,
I am A-level anonymous. My name is Anne and I do have a blogger account, I've just forgotten what is it.
I don't know why my brothers comment about the man cleaning the floor set her off. I am 28 and I still don't know what sets her off. I don't. She might laugh at a story one day and the next day it might enrage her.
I am the middle child. My sister - the youngest had easy for a while. When she was born, my mother said, this one I am going to spoil. And spoil she did. I had to help with the cooking and cleaning from the time I was about 12. My sister didn't learn to cook until she went to university a few years ago. And - I can count on one hand probably the number of times she has cleaned the house. Even when she is at home from uni for the holidays my mother will still have to cook when she comes home.
when I was young like 16 i was expected to help with christmas dinner and the cleaning and serve the guests. My sister - to this day will stay in her room until about 3 and then start getting herself ready. Sometimes she helps with the dishes afterwards but that's it.
anyway my sisters status as the golden child who could do no wrong lasted until my brother and I went to boarding school. Then there was only baby sister at home and she finally took the brunt of my mother's behaviour. I think she stopped liking my mother then. Once when she came to visit she said that my mothers constant criticism was making her miserable.
My mother always said that I was such a difficult child but when my sister hit her teens she rebelled enough to make up for my brother and I.
I struggle with this, now that I no longer live with her I keep thinking did she really say that? Did she really mean it that way?
Like most children of N's i have a really hard time trusting my recollection and my perceptions of a situation. I always think that I must have got it wrong somehow. As a child sometimes I would fess up to things I hadn't done because I thought that I must have had something to do with the mistake.
*****
Has anybody seen March of the Penguins?
I was just thinking that the normal parental instinct is to protect your progeny. I would like to suggest that the fact that narcissists sometimes deliberately try to destroy their own young is further proof of their unnaturalness.
They are like animals that actually eat their own young. At least those young die right away.
I would like to suggest that the fact that narcissists sometimes deliberately try to destroy their own young is further proof of their unnaturalness.
Hi Anne,
I have long suspected that n-parents set out to grow their own victims because sane strangers wouldn't put up with their crap. Both my parents were professors but wouldn't help me with my homework and I nearly got held back in 3rd grade. Oh boy did they love explaining in minute detail for hours everyday on why I'm so stupid. I started to suspect that I was a designated scapegoat of the family so I buckled down and studied really hard, at times not coming home after school for dinner but instead going straight to the library. I rather be hungry than listen to parents acting like homicidal 6 years old. They were less than thrilled when my grades improved. Fast forward 8 years, I'm graduating from college and neither one of them showed up. I was relieved they didn't come though my friends were mortified.
"I want to ask when you were a child and your parents lectured you, how long did the lectures last. My mother could go on with little input other than yes mum , no mum for hours at a stretch. I'm talking like 4-6 hours."
Yep. I have those lectures. Also when I went to a different country for awhile with my family unfortunately my mother discovered a punishment that they used there. Now I can get lectured for 2-6 hours with my hands above my head the entire time. Boy that hurts.
The entire time I am thinking please just shut up. Yes the smallest things set them off and I also sometimes showed pity for someone having to work on toilets or something else like that and I got a lecture. Bizarre.
Going to my mother for comfort not a good idea. She would never believe the reasons I explained for feeling this way and that and always tried to get to the root of the problem not believing a word I said even forcing me to say why I cried. Got really mad when I didn't just have once reason and she wouldn't ever understand. Now if I am upset I hide it from her.
And if she did not like the reason why I was upset say someone hurt my feelings or something she would then proceed to scold me telling me how awful I was for thinking such a way etc........
At about the age of six I was thinking about suicide. I realized that I couldn't do that to myself so I didn't. Explained it to not narcissistic dad not to long ago. He is having a hard time grasping how hard it is for me dealing with her.
Garfield
A couple years ago, I had a severe allergic reaction to medication or an illness I had. It was nasty - a disgusting rash allover my body, blisters on my hands and feet, mouth sores, swollen everything. We were taking pictures of it to sort of keep tack of what was going on. I was off work for a month. My N mom lives four provinces away and all she knew was that I was sick enough to be off work. I didn't want her down here to look after me because I knew I'd end up having to look after her instead. Her comment to me once I was better and she asked me to send her pics confirmed that - she thanked God that I didn't show them to her earlier because she would have had to get on a plane (she's scared to death of flying) to get down here. When told that there really was nothing anyone could have done for me, she said she wouldn't have come down to look after me but for her own sanity. After all, her reaction to the pictures was so much worse than what I was going through, I had medications that knocked me out and she had nothing. I shouldn't have expected anything different and I knew better than trying to get some sympathy from her, but it floored me all the same.
As an after thought - N mom has told her story to family and friends back home. About how she almost had to get on a plane because I was sick, and you just know how much she fears flying. That is what it centres around, her almost sacrificing herself. I'm sure in her mind this makes her the hero of this story and she deserves the pity of almost having to get on a plane.
"Hey, I need help. But I'll just talk over it and hint that I need it."
Parent's patient and understanding. Nods in the right places. Listens.
A few days later.....
No help. But my relatives are looking at me funny.
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