Saturday, May 31, 2008

My Father the Leech

I'm going to share this story because it's a pretty good example of the elderly narcissist at his best.

This is a pretty typical interaction for my father. While this happened when Damned Old Dad was in his early 70's, it could have happened when he was a much younger man.

So we're at a restaurant: Dad, me, my husband and two daughters, at the time 5 & 7. This is almost a decade before he developed Lewy Body dementia.

We're waiting for a table. Instead of passing the time paying attention to his granddaughters, n-dad starts looking around and notices an attractive, composed professional looking 40ish woman. She's alone. My father leaps up and sits down next to her.

"I just lost my wife," he announces morosely.

The woman nods and offers her condolences. He launches. He tells her about my mother's Alzheimers, his loneliness, his whole life story. Just like that. He leeched onto her and expected this perfect stranger to offer him undivided attention and sympathy in a happening restaurant. It never occurred to him that she probably had a hard day and was hoping for some down time. He chattered on, hanging his head for maximum impact, without asking the lady her name or where she was from. Surprisingly, she didn't seem annoyed.

I was stunned. When we were called to dinner, I walked over to her and apologized. Some might say I didn't have to do that. Some might say it was none of my business.

In the past, n-dad pissed off or offended so many people that it often fell to me to smooth things over. At least, that was the (desperate) role I took on. The first time I remember this happening was when I was a kid and n-dad told some new parents their baby looked like Khrushchev. Their faces fell. I spent the rest of the wedding carting that baby around, gushing he was the cutest thing I'd ever seen.

I was every bit as embarrassed by n-dad's behavior at the restaurant as I was when he dissed that poor baby.

So guess how the lady responded?

She shrugged and said it was no big deal. She explained she was - HAH! - a shrink and used to dealing with "people like that." Then she dug out a card from her purse and handed it to me. "You can come see me some time," she said with a smile. "To help you deal with him."

I didn't do it. Not because I didn't want to, but because we were moving hundreds of miles away. That was ten years ago. I wish I would have pursued this issue much sooner and more seriously.

I spent much of those ten years catering to my leech of a narcissistic father. I allowed him to ruin family vacations and family time. I failed to understand that I'd become a people pleaser who always looked to others for validation instead of looking within. I too easily accepted the opinions of others. After identifying my father as a narcissistic personality and figuring out how to deal with him and me, I've become a much, much happier person. Gone is my own personal struggle with anxiety and hypochondria (more on that another time). And even though he continues to be needy, his needs are much easier to handle now that I've learned to say those magic words: "no," "I will when I can," and "I have to go because the girls/husband need me." Also, just because the phone rings and it's him, doesn't mean I have to answer. I actually learned to use voice mail!

69 comments:

Bess said...

Restaurants and school functions are two places where I have the most vivid memories of wanting to sink into a hole in the earth while watching my father do some of the most ridiculous, embarrassing things in the name of getting attention. There was one evening when we (Dad, Mom, my sister, and I) were getting in the car to go out to eat when my mother pointed out to my father that his fly was open. Dad says, "If you don't like it we can just stay home!" Uhhh, we really should've. Instead, Mom backed down and we drove to the restaurant where my father proceeded to seat himself instead of wait to be seated, as the sign clearly said. We reluctantly followed him to the table where he proceeded with a litany of insults about other patrons (not even Sotto Voce, but just plain loudly) and, topping on that cupcake of an evening, he pulls out his false teeth and puts some tooth powder on them IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RESTAURANT with the powder dropping all over the floor and his fake teeth out of his head for all to see so their appetites could off themselves. My mother, sister, and I didn't say anything that whole time. We were all too embarrassed and miserable watching him make all of us look like fools, and I really believe he was such an ass because mother had the audacity to tell him he forgot to zip his damned zipper. Gosh, that was so excruciating just to remember it now...I wonder that I didn't just die at the time it happened. And our family was just so powerless to stop it; we only saw the option of letting it happen because he was a tyrant and a spoiled brat and IN CHARGE.

Anonymous said...

My father developed and died from a frontal lobe affecting dementia as well. Even a decade before he was finally diagnosed, there were subtle signs of the illness that would later take his life.

My father was horrendous because of the disease. He was truly awful, and did some horrid things. I still love the memory of the man who raised me, and respect him enough not to use an internet blog to "find closure".

Jeannette Altes said...

I'm glad the man who raised you engenders love. I wish I could say the same about my parents. But neither of them have dementia. And they did some horrid things anyway. I hope they never get dementia - I don't want to even imagine what they would be like...

Anonymous said...

Oh boy… those restaurant scenes and then apologizing the hapless people: be it waitress, other patrons, or my parent’s own guest. The most vivid one was during my parent’s divorcing days. Dad had taken a visiting professor and me to a restaurant. Mom found out where and showed up. Normally it is dad who shows off and abuse the waitresses, but seeing mom coming in huffing and puffing and itching for a fight, he knew she is about to put on a show and she didn’t disappoint.

Mom sat down and started berating dad while dad’s guest looked trapped and I was just bored. The food came and mom helped herself (remember, she wasn’t invited). Dad gave her money to go away and mom threw the money across the table back at dad. I rolled my eyes and the guest watched his food with great interest. Finally mom was done eating and left and I turned to the guest and apologized for the behavior of both of my parents.

I think these n-parent(s) get a high being such public asses because 1) nobody dared to stop them so it feeds to their god ego and serves as proof of their godliness, and 2) it’s a power show over the civilized who don’t know how to react to these bizarre sight. At any rate, I hope my dad’s guest went home and kissed and thanked his wife for being a sane person.

Nina said...

ANONYMOUS: This is NOT a blog about caring for someone with frontal lobe dementia. I am glad you loved and honor your parent and sorry to hear that your father was horrid while in the grip of the disease. This IS a blog about dealing with a narcissistic parent. My father was a narcissist decades before he developed dementia. Why are you taking the trouble to visit blogs about narcissistic parents after your father's death? Surely, you are using the internet to address issues in your own life? Otherwise, why bother.

KATHERINE: Yep! Having a narcissistic parent is horrible enough...having them develop dementia is unbelievable bad luck!

Nina said...

BILLIE: I cringed as I read your story. While my father always seemed unaware that his behavior was upsetting to others and that he was "disturbing the peace," your father's behavior seems almost calculated to achieve maximum humiliation and discomfort.

You wrote: "We were all too embarrassed and miserable watching him make all of us look like fools."

I wanted to address this. I think this is a REALLY big deal. If we have a parent such as this, what does it say about US? In the minds of others, we are strongly associated with so unpleasant a person. Our own reputations suffer. "Oh, she's the one with the nutty father." I always felt that people secretly felt sorry for me and considered me suspect, too. Like any odd quirk of behavior on my part was evidence that I too was strange or would end up like him. Even as a child I worried about this. I take it you did, too?

ENILINA: It sounds like you were a bit more successful in the detachment department even back then, because I would have slid under the table with the show your mom put on. Were you really bored? Or just totally numbed out by that point because there wasn't anything you could do to stop her. If you did, it surely would have made it much, much worse! My cousin's mother would behave similarly and I know that today...even thinking about entering a restaurant or store with her mother gives her a post traumatic stress response!!!

Anonymous said...

Nina, I drifted onto your ungrateful and embarrassingly whiney blog because I have google alerts set up for Lewy Body dementia. It seems that you have the same disorder that you accuse your father of having. "I need attention for having a crappy childhood! My parent/s weren't perfect!"

Part of growing up is realizing that there is no such thing as a perfect person. With that realization comes forgiveness and a measure of understanding. I hope you find it one day.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous..8:27

Your father became "horrendous" because of the disease. It sounds like he was a honorable man before the disease. Now imagine a man who is emotionally toxic to your for over 40 years that never showed you any ounce of love and only used you for his own needs. Many narcississts sexually abuse their children because boundaries are not a concept with them. Now on top of everything I just wrote, add Lewy Body dementia. You stated that your good father became "horrendous". Now imagine a bad uncaring father afflicted with the same disease and the same parent went from normal toxicity to nuclear wasteland. AND Nina is taking care of her leech of a father.

We spend all our lives "understanding" our parents and are expected to "forgive" them for treating us less and zero. As if forgiving them means absolving them. One does not need to forgive in order to be emotionally healthy. What would be emotionally UNhealthy is still be willing victims of abusive parents, be their doormates and punching bags.

I hope you find it in your heart one day to actually emphasize with survivors of abuse and not demand that they continue to be victims in order to fit into your neat little world.

Bess said...

anonymous: Obviously you had the pleasure of not growing up in an abusive household and I am pleased for you. There are elderly people whom I know and whom I dearly love and who have never been the horrible people my father was/is, and I would never class them in the place I put my father.
I am not judging you; do NOT judge me. You've not walked in my shoes.

Anonymous said...

That’s “empathize”, not “emphasize”

NINA: You’re right, I was likely mostly numb as well as bored because after 19 years their public dramas and traumas were all re-runs. With dad I had started the detachment early as a kid, with mom only recently.

Post traumatic stress…. I think we all have it after being grounded down by them for 30 plus years.

I wanted to address this. I think this is a REALLY big deal. If we have a parent such as this, what does it say about US? In the minds of others, we are strongly associated with so unpleasant a person. Our own reputations suffer

It still boggles my mind that your dad totally ditched you and your family and honed in on this complete stranger. At least the physiologist immediately knew what you were dealing with. Other people are probably just glad it wasn’t them saddled with an odd behaving man. I hadn’t thought too deeply how my reputation was affected because I knew I didn’t have any control. I’m sure other professors and relatives avoided me and my sisters because 1) parents were time and soul suckers and 2) gee, maybe we’re just like them and hence could negatively influence their kids. So yeah, you’re correct that our own reputation suffer.

Like you, Nina, as a kid I worried about inheriting the quirks and behaviors of my parents and were hypervilagent. My friends met my mom briefly enough to know she’s a chatterbox and I made them promise to tell me if I get too talkative or monopolize the conversation.

Nina said...

Thanks to Enilina and Billie for responding to Anonymous.

One last comment back to Anonymous: It is not simply a matter of a parent having some faults. My father was abusive and neglectful. For as long as I can remember. I've been his emotional caretaker since I was a child. I have stuck by him when no one else has. If you've not had such a parent, do avoid passing judgment on others who have. One does not simply "get over it" with positive thinking or forgiveness. This is too simplistic. In real life, most of us survivors of narcissists do not whine and complain. We have found a safe place to share our experiences online where we can try to make sense of them. If this offends you, I suggest you don't waste your time and energy on whiney, ungrateful bastards such as myself!

roxtarc said...

restaurants ahhh just one of those slippery slopes... it presents the opportunity to be IN THE SPOTLIGHT and that's like crack to an addict w/narc personalities, he’d do ANYTHING to be in that spotlight. hahah... it's horrible but I laugh at it now... at our rehearsal dinner, it was my family (narc, mom, sis, bro & his wife) and my dh's (dad from fla who was mtg my family for the first time UGH, sis, bf, brother, gf, nephew, mom) and a friend also. well my friend was kindhearted enough to sit beside him… and of course w/his ‘diverticulitis’ we had to hear all about his dietary restrictions (it was Italian he could have picked something)… he kept asking me what to order, it was our rehearsal dinner, I made sure I sat on the opposite side, but I didn answer and told him… you know what you can eat and what you can’t, and would go back to my conversation. When we gave our gifts to the bridesmaids/ushers…. he pulled the “ach I’m no feelin tae well”, then it was “ach I’m feeling shaky” and it only escalated as we (meaning mom, sis, bro sisinlaw) ignored him hahahah it really was a scene… but we persevered and then afterwards outside he pulled a full on episode where he was clinging to the light post (wouldn’t sit on the bench next to the light post it wasn’t as dramatic) before we finally got him in a cab to get him home…. Everyone in DH’s family asked “is he okay should we call an ambulance” and I told them I know this sounds horrible, but ignore him and he’ll have a miraculous recovery. He’s just working himself up & we’ll see you all tomorrow (in an attempt to get them all outta there) and sure enough when they all said their goodbyes… he was well enough to do the same, before getting into the cab we called for him…. WHICH was the only reason we had to wait outside and witness his antics, it was because he had said he arranged a car service and then at the last minute it was “no I thought you were takin me home” HAHAH oh yeah… of course I’m taking you home the night before my wedding hahah… ummmm nope, we’ll call you a cab.….

Should I share about the wedding… ? (I know you wanna hear it Nina) hahaha…. He walked me down the aisle cracking jokes… like it was a comedy routine and he was on stage and he was looking around at everyone looking at him (he even said something to that effect)…I staged whispered… um Dad, this isn’t a comedy skit… can ya get me down the aisle here… meanwhile… UMMM pretty sure they were looking at the BRIDE. That wasn’t the last of it, apparently my sister had to tell him to shut up because he was still at it when he sat down & the priest started the ceremony. I was pretty oblivious to it by that point, I had more important things to attend to..

During the photos… it was all about his back, he canny stand, he’s no feeling all that well, I’m having trouble w/my (I can’t remember what it is, but it’s like pins/needles cant remember the name for the diagnosis, seems he only has it when he needs it) and it was this that and the next thing. He was getting p!ssed that nobody was paying any attention to him…. by the time it came time for us to do the father daughter dance… he was definitely in a lather. And I honestly almost decided against doing the dance, because they announced it… and we had to wait for him… I had told him it was coming up next… but we still had to wait for him… and just when I said to the band master, maybe we’ll do it later… he appeared. And throughout the entire song… he talked sh!t… first he made fun of the woman who was singing it (she was heavyset but had SUCH a voice) I told him… we’re on Video… people will hear this so stop it… and then he complained so badly about how he was in pain and he cant eat anything (oh… did I mention my dh & I paid for the entire wedding ourselves, not that I want a medal or anything but traditionally the father of the bride contributes and he was supposed to be saying words of touching wisdom on the day of my wedding… I got complaints)… ugghhh. By that point I was motioning to the band master to cut the song short! I was just DONE… to this day… I haven’t ordered a copy of my wedding video because I just don’t want to see all of the drama w/that & get mad and worked up about it….

All of this may seem trivial to people who didn’t live it their whole lives, and can self righteously make observations based on “browsing” a topic they’ve come across… but a wedding day is something you hope is exempt from those manipulations you’re used to dealing with… and though my pretty alabaster dress was kryptonite that day… it wouldn’t serve that same purpose now. I don’t want to spend another $500 on something that’s going to just irk me because of the underlying currents that were at work… (is that crazy?)

roxtarc said...

hows THAT for a chapter? haha
sorry for the huge post... hmmm, maybe should i have posted it Anonymously? hahah

Anonymous said...

Hi Nina, first time commenting on your blog. I, too was brought up by an n-father. My way of dealing with him was to move away 7000 miles. To take care of a person like that in his/her old age is unbelievable strong as far as I'm concerned. I could NEVER do it. And I don't think my dad was as bad as yours. I admire you for what you do. If it helps you to write about it, that's great. I'm sure it helps a lot of other people too.

Jeannette Altes said...

Roxtarchic~

I understand. Even though some of the incidents stand on their own as incredible, they are part of a tapestry of a lifetime that has a cumulative effect to the point that seemingly small things (not like your wedding, but, say a couple of remarks in a social gathering) can be that last straw...

Anonymous June 2, 2008 8:27 AM

Hmm... I invite you to read my blog - the posts filed under 'My Story' and then leave whatever comments you feel appropriate...

Nina said...

ENILINA,

Well, you learned a very important lesson relatively early in life. That you couldn't control your parents behavior. I don't think I got to that place until relatively recently. I was always dashing out in front of my father...trying desperately to corral him b/f he got out of control...or sweeping up afterward. I was always TRYING to control a force that knew no bounds...so good for you!!!

ROXTARCHIC, You may be able to make extra money punching up in dialogue in movies...because when you describe the "scenes" starring your father...man...it's like I'm there...listening to him. I know you've said b/f that at first people find him charming b/c of his accent and that has got to be annoying as well. I mean, he SOUNDS funny. Superficially. But his behavior in front of the restaurant and the walk down the wedding isle? Shameless! That's really, really awful that he couldn't allow you to have the moments you so richly deserved! It hurts. And it boggles the mind. Thank you for (finally) sharing what happened on your wedding day. I was really curious! If there was an award for this kind of nonsense, your Dad would surely win! But I'm sorry that happened.

SECOND ANONYMOUS: 7000 miles sounds like the perfect solution to me! Good for you!!! I may have distanced myself from him if I hadn't been an only child and if he hadn't been totally alone in the world. I long ago concluded it was my moral obligation to take responsibility for him. I made my bed...and now I flopping around as restless as ever!

Thank you for reading and stopping by!

KATHERINE: Your words to Roxtarchic were VERY beautifully
put!

JoanOfWork said...

NINA-

I think you are a saint. I mean that- I often stop myself from saying: NINA- don't pick up the phone. I'd ignore the troll, but I know those sorts are like splinters.

You are a great daughter to a horrible father.

Nina said...

Hey HWS, THANKS for the boost!

roxtarc said...

yeah.. i agree, very nicely phrased Katherine... and soooo accurate, i think after the wedding i didnt see him for months, i was afraid he'd look at me wrong or something snide would come out of his mouth & i'd snap. and who KNOWS what that coulda unleashed...

it's EASY to mimic him & the accent (i'm even better in person, but thank you i'm glad it's amusing in print) we had to laugh.... it's how we got thru things (my sibs & myself) we did a lotta laughing... we still do... there are stories from growing up that we laugh so hard we CRY and a lot of them involve his antics (i'm sure some people might be apalled by them but they're funny to us)

it was also disarming.... we'd laugh & he'd think he did or said something funny somtimes... so he'd laugh too not really knowing we were laughing AT him, not because of his wit or wisdom
hahah
priceless

Anonymous said...

I am going through a true horror right now. Dear old Dad who lost his wife four months ago is now looking for a “wife substitute.” One woman has been particularly patient with him at the retirement home. She has been willing to have dinner with him fairly frequently (at least two times a week). Of course – Dad wants to have dinner with her every night and now feels that she is going to be his new companion to fill in for my Mom. This woman is highly intelligent and chose never to get married. She is 88 and has no ties. She is patient with Dad but has made it clear that she is not interested. Talk about not listening -- Dad will not let it go and has begun calling her regularly. Today – he tells me that he is going to talk seriously with her. He believes that by sheer will he will get her to take care of him. I tried to talk him out of it – but he would not listen to anything I had to say. It is utterly frightening. This poor woman. Anyway – I am waiting for the inevitable phone call telling me what a piece of crap she now is. Any rejection sets him into a panic and he lashes out at everyone. I need to fasten my seat belt because he is now poised to go into full meltdown. Yup – another day in the life of Dad.

Anonymous said...

My younger brother and I have grown up with a single narcissistic father from the ages of 3 and 6 onwards. Our mother left the state and quite nicely left us to be raised by him!
He is totally consumed by the fact that everyone is against him. He absolutely cannot take any advice or criticism and has absolutely no empathy for others whatsoever. He would have to be the rudest person I have ever met in my life. I couldn't even tell you the countless times he has berated a complete stranger in public. He is never wrong, you see, and everyone is a complete imbocille compared to him in his mind. He seems to think that I am indebted to him for the rest of my life because he raised us kids! He constantly goes ahead and arranges my life for me - even though I'm 25!! And he seems to think that I live and breathe to cater for his every need! Before I met my partner, my Dad used to treat me as though I was his wife. Obviously, he has not been able to keep a relationship since our mother leaving all those years ago because no one can stand his behaviour. He has truly made my life hell, but for some reason I still care about him.
I thank God for the support of my partner with him who thinks my Dad is extremely selfish.
Now that I am with my partner my Dad tries to make me feel guilty for what he thinks is ignoring him. Sorry Dad, it's called starting my own family! Not everything revolves around you! I'm now expecting my first child in 11 weeks and I'm dreading what he'll do. I just know he'll be interfering, controlling and judgemental. As you can tell, he just makes me so angry how self centred the man is... and what's worse is that you can't even reason with him.

The G-Funk! said...

This is really interesting, I just found your blog. Thanks for sharing it, Nina. Whoever that anonymous person was (the first two posts) was pretty rude. I find your writing to be therapeutic and insightful. It helps me understand my own feelings about my own father better. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Hi Nina, I've been following your blog on and off for a year or so, due to the fact things came to a head with my father and I was looking for ways to deal with his behaviour online. I find your similar experiences comforting to know I am not the only one. Your experience with your father in the restuarant is very similar to what my father did on holiday in France this year-latched onto an attractive stranger, completley abandoning my mum in order to tell her all about himself and his ailments. Everyone else on the trip found it highly amusing to watch him dashing about to pull out chairs for her, even sitting next to her at dinner while my mum was left to sit with the other guests. When my mum asked him if he was going to sit next to her, he said very suprised, "well if you want me to"? I have coped with his behaviour for 27 years now, but when I moved out age 23, he took to ringing me at least two times a day, never to listen to me, only to talk about various ulers, back aches, colds etc. He also drinks alot and therefore alot of the time couldn't remember having a conversation with me a few hours before. He is violent and aggressive towards my mother and if I was to dare point out that he's phoned earlier, or say that I couldn't speak to him because I was busy, he would fly into a rage and slam the phone down, choosing to ignore me for a week only to phone up a week later like nothings happened. I would also get abusive texts saying I was dead to him, just because i'd asked him not to continuously ring me all evening. When I tried ignoring the phone, he would then ring every 15 minutes until I couldn't take any more and answered the phone. He would then say " ahh, this is how I get hold of you then". I have been to a councellor who I didn't find at all helpful, and dismissed narcissim as pop pyschology! I am looking to try a cognitive behavioural therapist but in the meantime the battle to be myself rages on!

Anonymous said...

HiNina,

Thank you for posting this..i was just browsing looking for some relief from the pent-up frustration i feel so often due to my n.dad.Although i'm married now and lives thousands of miles away,his actions over my last 30 years have had a strong influence.I've consciously been controlling my behaviour over the past 7-8 yrs. to stop turning out as his clone.Raging temper,physical and verbal aggression and a damn-care attitude towards the public.And soft and manipulative,as and when required.That's him.His mom was also that way.

After realising how closely i resemble him in my early adulthood and the pain of knowing that i was increasing unable to hold relationships or be genuine at any point of time,i just knew i had to watch my behaviour and change.

Even after so long since i've tried to distance myself from that behavioural style,at times the memory of all the narcissism he subjected us to,when we were younger hurts.That's how i browsed and came to read ur post.

Relieved,to know i'm not alone,There are parente fathers like mine.It's a vicious influence until we come to realise it for what it is.To those who feel it's sacrilegous to discuss this at all,it's not lack of gratitude,but just addressing a real problem.

Anonymous said...

Thank you very much for this blog. I am nearly 40 years old and slowly coming to terms with the fact that my father displayed/displays some very narcissistic behaviors. Wow! Can I ever identify with being embarrassed in public by a father who constantly needed to be in the spotlight and who would latch onto total strangers. As a child, it took me a while to understand that this was not 'normal' behavior. As an adult, I have just learned to walk away when I cannot bear to witness his pathetic 'neediness'.

Also, on the topic of weddings - and this may make me sound pathetic - but perhaps some of you can relate. One of the reasons I chose NOT to even have a ceremony when I got married was because I somehow knew that my father would find a way to make the day about himself, and I dreaded having him walk me down the aisle.

I also knew that if I chose to have a ceremony but did not ask him to walk me down the aisle that he would find a way to express his disappointment at not being able to walk his daughter down the aisle - poor him... taking something away from HIM!

OK, thanks. It felt good to get that out!

staceyjay said...

My narcissistic elderly father also has Lewy Body Dementia. Reading your bolg has validated many of my feelings. This story sounds exactly like a typical experience with my father. At 82 he still chases "girls" in their early 20's and believes that they are all interested in him! He causes scenes almost everywhere we go.

Anonymous said...

I have a narcissitic dad, Its been a few days before i came across this term and realised there is actually a word that can describe his behaviour. My mom and i have lived in his house being subjected to his constant verbal abuse and un-emphatic disposition, he never he shed a tear at hos won mothers death, I will be married soon to a wonderful guy but guess what my "father" has decided to bless this ocassion by dragging me to court under a false complaint. I just cant wait to get me and my mom FAR AWAY from his clutches. He doesnt deserve anything that we have done for him all these years, cleaning up his shit, covering up for his mitakes, even hosting parties for his mistresses !!!! I;ve lost faith in GOD, If there was a GOD why would he make innocent people suffer so blatantly at the hands of someone so selfish ??

Anonymous said...

I literally cried after reading your story. Your father reminds me exactly of mine. I'm 19 years old and I've delt with his embarassing and shamful antics since I was a young child. I really dont know what to do anymore. I feel like his perception of reality is completely out of whack. I feel sorry for my mom when she has to take him to formal events because I know he always ends up embarassing her. I'm glad to know there are so many others out there who are going through this and that I'm not alone. Sometimes I wish I never had a father.

Nina said...

NOVEMBER ANONYMOUS, First, congratulations on your upcoming marriage. If you haven't done so already, this huge milestone is a wonderful opportunity to set some even bigger boundaries with your n-dad. I was lucky in that, after 23, I always made sure I lived at least 400 miles away from my parents. It was no surprise when I moved back into the area with husband and kids (job), my anxiety SKYROCKETED. My cousin, who has a bipolar narcissistic mother, nearly had her marriage wrecked because her mother knew no boundaries, was a trouble-maker and was making demands 24/7. My cousin's husband kept tried to get my cousin to "just say no," but my poor cousin - such a sweet thing - was so accustomed to sacrificing herself. Long story short, my cousin opted for no contact b/c her mother got waaaay out of control...I think b/c she felt she'd lost control of her daughter and was actively competing w/the husband. So stay strong...as much as you can...and don't let your father try and guilt you anything when you should be focusing on yourself and your wonderful, new relationship!

JANUARY 21 ANONYMOUS...Well, honey, let yourself cry. You hit the crappot when it comes to getting stuck w/a narcissist for a parent! Blech. I'm always amazed that I....often twice the age of some of you sharing your experiences...seem to have such similar experiences separated by entire DECADES. Although I have been quite impressed that you younger folk are starting off at a much more self-aware place than people like me...who stumbled around in the dark...obedient, miserable and unquestioning...and full of anxiety, anger and depression. You have my sympathy, support and admiration!!!

Anonymous said...

I have longed for a relationship with my father all my life. I used to lie to my school friends about him.He never allowed me to spend time with him,I called "him," for contact with him. During those calls it was all his expensive cars, or about some lady he was involved with. He never acknowledged my birthdays, or any milestones in my life. I asked him to give me away at my wedding he simply refused. I asked him to attend a holiday dinner he passed by my house going and coming that very day, and never so much as phoned me to excuse himself. I was devastated. He knows nothing of any milestone in my life; Going to first grade, loosing first tooth, high school,and college and graduate school graduations. He still calls my son that boy. He does not know my grandchildrens names. He hates my husband, says I bought him. Now that he is old and he is even worse. I confronted him about his behavior towards me my husband and grandchildren, and he became so angry with me he threatened to have me thrown out of the nursing home by security.He plans to disinherit me now. I am the bad person, I am mean,because I confronted him. I told him I only wanted his love, and respect. I realize now it is only about him, he is unable to form attachments
with others.He is top of the line
in the field of manipulations.
I moved closer to where he lives a few years ago, I was happy to be near him. I thought being close to him would draw us closer, particularly that he is quite elderly. It did not happen. Since that time, I have allowed him to manipulate me, and I have seen how he manipulates others.
I have endured emotional pain,that could have devastated my life. Thanks for a wonderful supportive husband, son and loving aunts his sisters and my very dear grandchildren.

Anonymous said...

Tough. I get it. Im 14 and also live with a narcissistic father. I, too, tried to have a relationship with my dad by doing some activities with him(golf, tennis, etc.). Like you, I have now realized that he is the bad person, the manipulator, and I am good, not bad. However, I have only 1 question for you: How do I deal with him, because I still have 3 more years at home before I leave for college. How I can deal with the "master" and his constant yelling to everyone and everything for 3 MORE YEARS?

Anonymous said...

For Anonymous...How you deal with it is not to feel guily, allow yourself to be maniuplated, and seek how healthy, Godly male role models. Perhaps your Pastor, a youth pastor, a friend's dad, a teacher. Know that it is all about your dad, and as hard as it will be, your dad does love you, but he loves himself more, and cannot give you what you need. It's all about his needs. I am 46 years old, and my spouse diagnosed my dad about 5 years ago and the light bulb when out. I was trying to figure him out all my life. What a blessing that you know at an early age, and won't be wasting any time wondering why he wont' change. My dad has now moved on to his "4th family",and I am done with trying to please him, etc. Be yourself, love yourself, and know he really does have a disease and sickness, but it is not your fault. He is the parent, not you. Unfortunately, they put the "adult" responsibilities on their children. Find a good mentor, church, support group and you will be fine. May God bless you

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Wow, so nice to know that I'm not alone, though my sympathies to everyone else with narc parents. My mom and dad are both toxic, alcoholic narcissists. I stopped talking to my dad when I was 18 and my mom when I was about 35. I went through hell as a child: physical, sexual, mental abuse, plus neglect, bonus points for me, right? Anyway, mostly I can laugh about it now, at the ripe old age of 42, but it's amazing how much their behavior has affected my life, despite my determination to not let that happen. Toxic. Now the really tragic thing is that my divorced brother has turned out to be a narc parent too, and I don't know what to do, aside from kidnapping his 2 kids before it's too late. I didn't realize how bad it was until they came to visit me. Just so sad. He acts like he listens to me, but there is a wall from his brain to the moon that I can't get past. The crazy thing is that he KNOWS what we went through, yet he seems determined to repeat it :(

I'm not there unfortunately, but rest assured I will be the first to call the police if I even think he is sexually abusing them, but everything else is abuse too & I'm not sure how or where to draw the line.

He doesn't drink, anyway, but that isn't much consolation for me and his kids, so if someone has any advice for intervention, aside from explaining better ways of behaving & why, which I spent the entire trip doing, I would greatly appreciate some input. The kids are 7 & 9, and their mother is even worse than their dad. Ugh.

Devon said...

My Dad has mentally abused My Mother, my two siblings, and me since I was born. He stalks us, he won't let us have high opinions of anybody but him and his side of the family, when we do he throws a fit and hurls things around the room and insults my Mother. He also won't apologize for any of his actions. He seems normal and lovable sometimes, but he has anger issues and possible narcissism and can snap and make a scene anywhere, including in public. I try not to be too rude to him when he acts normal because I actually have a heart and he's my Dad, but he doesn't understand the damage he inflicts on his children and their mother. We've been to custody court already and barely anything has changed. I am only a 12 year old and I am tired of dealing with adult matters. What can I do about him and his narcisstic parents?

Anonymous said...

Wow. I got online today wondering if i would find anything about narcissism and how to deal with it. Of course this was triggered by the actions of my father. I must say i didnt find the magic "pill", however reading all your blogs/comments cleared up quite a few things. I can relate to a lot of the stories told.
My father likes to do the same thing: expect great things, make excuses for the things he expects us to do but cant do it himself (effin hypocrite), thinks everyone besides him is stupid and when me or my brother disagree or even say no to something, he throws a "fit". Cursing, breaking things, being physically abusive and yes this happens regardless of what environment he's in. My mom went in depression and my brother is too young (teen) to be dealing with it. I have been dealing with it since i can remember. So after 18 long yrs, i pretty much was fed up and decided i was no longer going to be the miserable little helper to him. And since then i have stood up to him.
If you are young and/ or still dealing with your n-parent here are a few tips. These may/ or may not help you of course. But these are some i employ:
1) If you are in High school, you need to focus on SCHOOL. Keep your grades up and get the hell out and go to college. Because a college education will give u decent amt of money to be able to live away frm ur parent (close to them if you want but at-least not in the same household) and maybe find a psychologist for u or ur parent...or both in a perfect world.
2) IGNORE. Sometimes being detached will keep the emotional toll down on you. Share their happiness when possible, they are your parents, but if your n-parent starts making things miserable, find a "safe place". This can be going for a walk, listening to music, something that will calm your mind...
3) Im not a psychologist (so if there are any around here pls help us out!!), but when my n-father, starts his "fits", i usually try to control things in the household by making him think he's doing it. I know, i know, it's wrong but it works for little things and all those little things can save you alot of abuse. Such as i'll tell him "it was a misunderstanding, so instead of getting mad, why dont you explain it. Calm dwn cause i know ur a good explainer". And i know this also feeds into the disorder, but remember at this point, if ur parent truly is narcissistic then the only person there to care for you is you. Putting on a little icing to do damage control i think is fine. And since you are stuck there for time being, try to minimize the damage being inflicted to you.
I dealt with this throughout my teenage years and this is how i have dealt with it. I admire those of you still cared about ur n-parents, trying to win their approval and all. By the time i was 18, i told my dad to get out! (Running away at the age of 18 penniless wasnt too smart, so i figured he could go) Recently i read an article where it says narcissistic parents dont think their kids will ever leave them because they think the kids are dependent on them, so i guess when i tried to kick him out, that illusion of his might have cracked and he changed some of his behaviors..well tried to anyways... I still deal with him daily... thinking one day i wont have to :)

Anonymous said...

Hi all..Congrats first of al for all ur comments i mean i know now i have a narcissist father..ok hah..so my story: i am standing awake in middle of nght at 2 hours past midnite wid nowhr to go becoz i jus had one of those anuther mad evening where my dad shouted saying he was angry and wanted us to tell him why he was becoz he didnt know. the trigger was that he couldnt sleep last night. I am a psychologist myself and i rem here one of u asking help from a shrink but trust me guys, these nfathers r hopeless,,sory to say but i feel so ..after discovering much to his anguish that am not interested anymore in helping his psychological issues, he tries to berate my would be husband. he spent entire evening talking crap wen i n my mom shudav been sleeping..n now here i am ..unable to sleep n nowhr to go in middle of night..Dang! guys its not funny,,but wid time we al learn to find ways or live wid it..oh n by the way i have a brothr too who left home for good way back in college almost 9 years now..anyway dunno if am making sense but thanx for ur blog ..prayer to all..May god bless us! :)

Anonymous said...

I was searching online to try to figure out if my Dad is an N. My problem is that I am deeply committed to trying to go God's way, but trying to find the correct boundaries of honoring my Dad, but yet keeping him also at a distance because he makes me sooooooooooo angry. I do feel that my Dad is narcissistic, but maybe tweeked a little from the usual. My parents divorced when I was 14, and my 3 bros and I were very thankful to my Mom that she finally did it. Doesn't that say something right there? My Dad was very abusive to my mom and two oldest brothers, he could be physically abusive and mentally abusive, name calling, extreme anger. He never was close to any of us children, never tried to be. And afer the divorce, he would sometimes stalk my Mom or us, or try to spy on us. He only tried to contact us kids so that he could get information or get close to my Mom. Its a long manipulative story. Anyhow, now I am in my forties, and Dad is in his seventies, and he usually travels around in a travel trailer, staying on people's property here and there to save money, but since I became married again, the last few years, my husband started up a relationship with my dad, when before it had been out of touch for at least 7 years. Now my Dad is trying to live around us. I have two older sons that don't live in our household, but are local. My Dad lived on some friend's property for about a month, but now they want him to leave and his pretty upset about it. He tries to call me at least 3 times a day sometimes to talk and talk talk talk. It drives me crazy, I don't like to talk that much, and especially because I can't seem to get a word in at all sometimes. And he tries to come over, used to be every day, but my husband doesn't want him over now days after finding out what he is like. And I can't handle it anymore. Maybe seeing him once a week for a few hours would be okay, but he doesn't seem to understand I'm busy and an adult and although I forgive him, I don't want to talk to him all the time or have him over all the time. It's like he thinks he can force the issue and I'm just supposed to agree to it because he is my Dad and I have to honor him. Well, I know he is my Dad, and I do honor him, but my husband comes first!!!! And my Dad doesn't listen to me when I tell him we are busy or maybe we can talk a couple times a week. He made me so mad today. I have major health problems and am slow and today is sunday so I didn't get dressed until after 1pm. So, Dad calls and says that he is outside our apartment and wants to visit,and his voice is kind of laughing quality, like, haha I caught you and you can't refuse me. That just made me furious. He doesn't have respect for feelings or boundaries, and I've tried to talk to him about it before, but it doesn't work. I told him that I was not presentable and didn't have a shower yet and I told him, Dad, I'm not sure why you seem to be pushing yourself in coming over and calling all the time. I'm grown now and have a husband and have a life of my own. He just asked again, can I come over later. I'm feeling quilty because I am supposed to honor my Dad and forgive, and I feel that I do, but I really don't want to be around him much. What would you all suggest that I do? Thanks for all your comments, it did help to know that there are others like me in this predicament, although different, but similar, and we all seem to be angry about the disrespect and casualness that our Dad has treated us with as adults.
~Frustrated

Anonymous said...

The man I have been friends with for 15 years and dated for a year has developed an extreme case of narcissism. The behavior change is noticeable to his Mother, Brother and children. I left him because it wasn't the kind of relationship I signed up for! I've not had a relationship quite like that-EVER! (except with my parents....but not nearly as bad)

He's been accused of touching his daughter inappropriately. I can't imagine this actually happening. It is on the list on narcissistic traits though.....

He thinks he's so right and so smart. Most others who are close to him find him to be a negative, aggressive bully who seeks public attention for 'being who he is'.

Great article. I am wondering if the dementia (which runs in his family) has anything to do with the narcissism (which he and his brother share). His Mother is an enabler. You can scream your head off and abuse her....she'll claim that we always hurt the people we love.

Sigh. Very Sad. The memory loss, anger, need to be right.....very connected to dementia. I wonder if my ex is slipping into mental illness or dementia.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous September 18, 2011 5:57

I believe you are using this verse here: "“Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother which is the first commandment with a promise, so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth” (Ephesians 6:1-3)"

1) Are you a child? It says "children". OK it could mean child as in "daughter" or "son" but I truly believe this refers to children only and not adults. Would need to look at the original word in greek

2)Ephesians 5:22 says "22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord."; this does not mean being a doormat or not being able to make joint decisions. This simply means that God will use your husband in situations where you need protection. I, for example, tend to be too compassionate and end up hurting myself by helping bad people. God never wanted me to help those people in the first place but my compassion got in the way. A husband is there to protect you when you can't really see clearly (as you are there for him as well).If God commands you to submit to your husband then does it overrule the "honor your parents" commandment. I believe yes. Because you are no longer under your father's house or authority.

3)Matthew 10:38 says ""Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me"

Jesus said that putting your parents above Him is wrong. For YEARS I have felt hurt and belittled by people who told me to honor my parents. The mere mention of it cut like a knife. I was in HEALING & DELIVERANCE and I had heard God tell me TO CUT FROM THEM so that I can heal. I was attacked by christians and family. But I healed. After 13 years of intense inner healing (I have visited close to hundreds of churches...I worked so hard to be free...went everywhere, travelled, read books, joined groups, had spiritual parents...) I now came to the point where the forgiveness is not just mental but INSIDE. I genuinely do not feel any hurt or very little. It took me 13 years !!! Yes the damage was very deep esp. bc I have an extremely sensitive personality. I kept visiting. EVERYTIME i would visit the devil would USE THEM TO ATTACK ME. once after an attack i felt SO suicidal. It took 2 years to recover. GOD HIMSELF SHOWED ME THIS SCRIPTURE. WHEN I WAS PUTTING THEM FIRST BY VISITING THEM ETC. I WAS BLOCKING MY HEALING AND BLOCKING MY HEALING MEANT I WAS AWAY FROM HIS HEART !!!!!!!!!! When you hurt it BLOCKS your relationship with God.

4) There are PLENTY of verses in the Bible that christians DO NOT PRACTICE and never talk about. They always "pick and choose". They do not understand the meaning behind it nor do they understand it is not a law but it is to be followed by the SPIRIT. It's not a rule book. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT LOVE. NO ONE can make you feel guilty using a scripture. BECAUSE AFTER ALL...ARE THEY OBEYING ALL THE HUNDREDS OF SCRIPTURES FOUND IN THE BIBLE? IF YOU DID NOT HEAR FROM GOD I SAY DO NOT MAKE THE BIBLE A LAW BOOK

It is a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP. Listen to how you FEEL inside.

Honoring means this: "Regard with great respect".

HOW can you regard with great respect a man who NEVER EVER tried to have a relationship with you and was constantly abusive? There is NOTHING to respect.Maybe if he has a good side to him that you can remember, try to respect that and forget the rest. But if there is nothing else....what is there to respect? In this case the only thing to respect is the fact that he gave you life (and even in that case it is not him but God)

honoring is more of an INNER posture where you just come to terms with OK I RESPECT HIM. You can respect him FROM A DISTANCE.

Perhaps send him greeting cards via the internet to show him you are thinking about him or give him some money to stay in a nursing home.

Anonymous said...

Oh and another thing I wanted to mention. I'm the person above. I do not believe "blood" relatives are real family. I have discovered several spiritual parents and siblings with which there is an instant "click". emotionally and spiritually. They are usually very loving and include you. Those are real parents. So maybe that's the type of parents I will honor? Should we honor our parents because they fed up and clothed us? If it's all about money and materialism just send them a big fat paycheque when you win the lottery. :) Plus you did not ask to be brought on this earth, they conceived you and therefore are RESPONSIBLE.

This is an interesting question: if someone DOES NOT act like a parent, are they really a parent? What makes someone a parent? Blood? Genes? A Loving spiritual connection? We know all things will end one day and our spirits will live on. If those people are our parents...then in the spirit world it will be CANCELLED as they never bothers to establish a spiritual connection with us. Therefore anything not spiritual is null (from christian perspective)

Anonymous said...

Sorry...me again !!

Honoring could also mean just bless him as in say "God bless my father" and not curse him. This is what I do, I just BLESS those who have hurt me. It frees you.

But allowing him to annoy you into your own house? This is not honoring him but madness ! (sorry)

Anonymous said...

Here's the deal....I have a mother that is so self-absorbed and narcissistic that I literally have fought not to "disappear" when I am around her. Coincidentally, she sucks the life out of me. So, I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. When we are together, SHE sucks the air out of the room/ when we are apart, my phone will ring daily with her "checking-in". She has controlled my father to the point that he struggles to put a string of sentences together. She DRIVES ME NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot express adequately the pain that I have endured at the hands of this woman. She controlled me my whole life until I finally had enough. Forty years of her demanding, childish, needy, critical, over-bearing, and selfish behavior and I finally decided that I was done. My dad still hangs in there for more, but what can I say....it drives him nuts too, but he doesn't know anything else. As a result of this upbringing (the kind where only what she wanted mattered), I have gone on to marry THREE of the most narcissistic men possible. All three have destroyed my life. I am finally picking up the pieces, but with children involved it is hard to move on. I was taught that only what she wanted mattered and have had to learn from counseling that what I want matters the most. As long as it is legal and won't hurt anyone and moral, if it matters to me, then I should pay attention to it. Sometimes, I have to physically stop in my steps and think about what I am feeling, because I lived my whole life (child and adult) feeling what she wanted me to feel, or allowed me to feel. When you marry a man that is like this, you might as well kill yourself. It would be less pain. I am not condoning suicide, just don't stay in this type of relationship. It's not normal. Normal people don't make other people wish they themselves were dead. Normal people (when I say normal I mean healthy)give back to each other. Normal people make each other happy they are alive. They bring out the best in each other, not suck the very life out of them.

Anonymous said...

MotorCityMadness-
My father , a Narcissist, died last week. I was his only child but did not find out until 12 hours later, by a curt phone call from a daughter of my mother's first marriage. She too, is a narcissist, or at the very least, has many, many traits. My father signed everything over to her. She claimed to be "his daughter", I was not even allowed to see him, call him during his final hours. I was treated like a heinous criminal. yet had never done a thing to hurt him. I dont drink, smoke, I worked my way through college, bought my own home, have raised my children alone ( and they are kind hearted, wonderful kids !)...I did everything I could to try to "win" his love...and in the end, he found a way to hurt me one last time. The woman who called? She hadn't seen her own father for over 25 years a the time of his death, claimed my father had sexually molested her ( yet moved in with him)abandoned her son and isn't even aware she is a grandmother...nor seems to care.I had allowed myself to dream, to fool myself really, that one day my father would change...that one day he would be nice, caring, show love, an interest in his grandchildren. It never happened. Of course not. There is no cure. But living in that imaginary world was the only way I coped, I think. I was not even "allowed" to decide how his remains were handled and was told i had "no legal right" to his ashes. I've cried so much this week.

TinyBlu said...

OMG!!! This blog SOOOOO hits home. I never knew there was a reason my father behaves the way he does. I just thought it was because he was old and deluded, but so many of these posts sounds like experiences I've had growing up.

Restaurants were the worst!!! My family was big on cafeterias and it was inevitable that my dad would turn around and engage the people in line behind us in his mindless chatter.

Had to share this story: I must have been about 9 or 10, and my family had gone to the usual post-Sunday-morning-service hang-out, a locally owned cafeteria. Well, true to form, my dad was talking (loudly of course) about nothing, but decided to turn his back on us and engage the woman behind us in conversation. We are in the south, so it is typical for one of our fellow southerners to "be polite" and indulge my talkative father, but you can see them often glazing over with that "I wish this old man would shut up" look on his face. Well, today it wasn't the look on the woman's face that bothered me. Rather, the look of utter rage on her husband's face scared me to death. Seriously, the guys fists were clenched, and I feared that at any moment he was going to clock my dad for talking to his woman. I noticed how nervous the woman looked the whole time.

My step mom finally noticed the tension and grabbed dad's arm and tried to engage him in a conversation with us. This naturally sparked an argument between them, as of course, my dad wasn't doing anything wrong and NEVER noticed that he was causing major trouble...

Now, 25 years later, I find myself constantly trying to save the unsuspecting stranger from my dad's idle chatter. Even to this day he will relay a conversation he had with someone and be convinced that the other person enjoyed it. He often thinks that people find his offensive jokes funny, or he will take a situation (i.e. my brother's major back surgery this past weekend) and make it about him. I can not tell you how embarrassed I was at his antics this weekend. Talking loudly in the hospital room, inappropriately hugging female strangers, and regaling us with tales of how much liquor he drank and fights he got into when he was in the navy over 60 years ago (I guess he felt the need to tell these stories to my brother's fellow navy officers).

We're not even going to begin to talk about how I've had to take care of him since I was 6 years old due to him being legally blind.

So... I get it. It's just nice to know that there is a reason for this behavior and that I don't suffer alone. SOOOOO glad to have found this blog!!!!

TinyBlu said...

OMG!!! This blog SOOOOO hits home. I never knew there was a reason my father behaves the way he does. I just thought it was because he was old and deluded, but so many of these posts sounds like experiences I've had growing up.

Restaurants were the worst!!! My family was big on cafeterias and it was inevitable that my dad would turn around and engage the people in line behind us in his mindless chatter.

Had to share this story: I must have been about 9 or 10, and my family had gone to the usual post-Sunday-morning-service hang-out, a locally owned cafeteria. Well, true to form, my dad was talking (loudly of course) about nothing, but decided to turn his back on us and engage the woman behind us in conversation. We are in the south, so it is typical for one of our fellow southerners to "be polite" and indulge my talkative father, but you can see them often glazing over with that "I wish this old man would shut up" look on his face. Well, today it wasn't the look on the woman's face that bothered me. Rather, the look of utter rage on her husband's face scared me to death. Seriously, the guys fists were clenched, and I feared that at any moment he was going to clock my dad for talking to his woman. I noticed how nervous the woman looked the whole time.

My step mom finally noticed the tension and grabbed dad's arm and tried to engage him in a conversation with us. This naturally sparked an argument between them, as of course, my dad wasn't doing anything wrong and NEVER noticed that he was causing major trouble...

Now, 25 years later, I find myself constantly trying to save the unsuspecting stranger from my dad's idle chatter. Even to this day he will relay a conversation he had with someone and be convinced that the other person enjoyed it. He often thinks that people find his offensive jokes funny, or he will take a situation (i.e. my brother's major back surgery this past weekend) and make it about him. I can not tell you how embarrassed I was at his antics this weekend. Talking loudly in the hospital room, inappropriately hugging female strangers, and regaling us with tales of how much liquor he drank and fights he got into when he was in the navy over 60 years ago (I guess he felt the need to tell these stories to my brother's fellow navy officers).

We're not even going to begin to talk about how I've had to take care of him since I was 6 years old due to him being legally blind.

So... I get it. It's just nice to know that there is a reason for this behavior and that I don't suffer alone. SOOOOO glad to have found this blog!!!!

Anonymous said...

Maria 15-03-12
Hi my husband and i have just reliazed
his dad definitely has Narcisstic Presonality Disorder. They are in a family business and i told my husband for years Ndad is just not normal.
I am begging you all to go to
www.hartrelatioshipcounselling.com.au
This has bought so much peace into our lives because we understand the Ndad and see how he sees the world. It is not normal, it is toxic, and walking away is really the only way to get on with a healthy life. Don't worry about Ndad they will be only looking for their next fan or victim
to suck energy from to care about you. We are stronger and more dedicated than ever to enjoy our life and not look back on the last 20 years of crap! Please join us....

Anonymous said...

www.hartrelationshipcounselling.com.au

Sorry left out the n before
first time blogging!
Maria

Skippuh said...

Hi, I'm 52. My Dad is 83 and not only a narcissist but I believe is bipolar. One incident that comes to mind is a few yrs ago my grandmother on my Mom's side passed away. Well as in many dysfunctional families there was the blame card being thrown around and my Mom's step sister wrote my Mom a disrespectful insulting letter (basically disowning my Mom). My mom ripped the letter up and threw it away. My Dad taped together the letter and handed it out with the programs at the funeral home. My mom, myself and others were so embaressed over his behavior. This is just one example of the turmoil and embaressment that he caused in my family. I won't even go into my Dad and facebook!

Anonymous said...

This has been amazing support. After my divorce, I came to realize my children's father is a narcissist, having developed his pathetic self from a true narcissistic master--his own father. My children have been mentally and emotionally abused by not only their father, but grandfather as well. I have spent the past week sorting through the trauma of my youngest child (son age 19) attempting suicide by crashing his car into a utility pole as a result of these monsters. Luckily he is physically fine--something no one can believe who witnessed the accident or see the pile of scrap metal that a week ago was his car. Sadly, the most rewarding accomplishment of power to date for his father to have achieved in his warped world would have been to bury his only son and last victim. That is the ultimate definition of evil. No one can judge how horrific an NDAD can be unless you have lived this. There needs to be a way to have this behavior charged as criminal. I have three wonderful children and am determined to help them continue to recover from the abuse our family has endured. Thanks to all posts who stand in support of the survivors of NDAD abuse. I am working desperately to make arrangements for my son to move 1,000 miles away from this NDAD and NGPA (narcissist Grandpa). Does anyone know how to prove and pursue legal action against this abuse? I would so like to help and prevent other children and families from this suffering.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry to discover that this blog appears to be inactive now. The posts are riveting, as are the comments. Us adult children of narcissists really need to connect with each other to affirm our realities. The anonymous poster who accuses Nina of being ungrateful and whiney simply does not understand. Most people do not.

The worst part of it is that we, the ACONS, internalize the message that both the N AND society give us: honor thy parents. Be grateful. We learn to accept crumbs of a pale imitation of love and/caring, and also abuse ourselves for not being able to love the person in spite of their behavior. One can not do this with a pathological narcissist. Their only goal is to hurt, even as they claim it hurts them.

On a lighter note, frankly, I practically laughed out loud when reading about your father saying a baby looked like Krushev. My father said the exact same thing, though, in his case, he'd do it behind the person's back. When introduced to a person's new baby (girlfriend, wife, etc.) he'd go crazy overboard with compliments. The minute that person was gone, he'd turn to me and say, "Wow. They are delusional.I really wanted to say, Madam, your baby is the ugliest creature ever born." I heard this all the time. He assumed all people were this mean, told me this was true, and I (when young) believed everyone was a liar. It's hard to unlearn thinking this, but, thankfully, I have.

Anonymous said...

Everybody - thanks for sharing. I am in my 30s and have a very Nfather. Restaurants and holidays were the worst. Yelling and screaming in public, he brought all of us to tears, and still does. For those of you in high school, take the advice of the previous poster, and FOCUS ON GETTING GOOD GRADES and learn to support yourself financially. That is what I did, and I left home at age 18. I worked 30 hours a week in high school and studied until 2am so I could move out ASAP. My Dad is an alcoholic, too, and my mom was always ill, so needless to say, I did not have a childhood. My older brother is in his 40s, still living with our Nfather, he "can't" work, and has developed a drug problem. My dad gives him money and screams at him. They are mentally ill and violent, and I fear that I will get a call from the police one day about a tragic event.

Most recently, my mom passed, and my Dad is very needy. He was very abusive to my Mom, and I miss her to tears, but I truly feel she is in a better place now. He sends all of our relatives and family friends CONSTANT updates about minor ailments, yet my mom had a hole in her heart, and he never paid much attention to her needs. He sends our relatives and his kids nasty emails if we do not respond to his 5 daily emails about how he needed to take a tylenol for a minor ache.

Now, he is dating a woman. He screamed at me for 10 minutes insisting that I invite her to my wedding. As the father of the bride, and a wealthy father, he is supposed to at least help pay. He is not providing a dime, yet he insists on bringing his girlfriend that I have never met to my small financially constrained wedding. Now he is mad at me that I invited his side of the family, because he is embarrassed that they will find out that he did not help financially, and his brothers don't have much money and gave their daughters (my cousins)very nice weddings. He actually had the nerve to tell me that. So, now he is trying to convince them not to fly to my wedding.

I am scared of my brother that lives with my dad. He is mentally ill now (15 years of drugs plus untreated emotional issues = bad), and it was a huge impediment for me spending more time with my mom while she was dying, but I did. I had to call the police on him while I was at home. I fear that he will hurt my dad's live in girlfriend because he has openly talked about how he is counting on my dad's inheritance to survive, and he sees her as a threat to this money.

At this point, I am trying to learn how to become a bit more selfish. If anybody has any online resources for healing from this pain, I would appreciate it. I wish I had not invited him to my wedding coming soon, and just eloped. I fear that he will ruin this day, and I would hate for my soon to be husband to have bad memories of his (our) wedding because of my dad. My fiance is aware of my dad's problems, but I would appreciate any ideas for how to protect my husband from my dad's bad behavior on our wedding day. Recently, I have just started to kiss my dad's behind and do what he says to try to keep him happy so he doesn't ruin our wedding, but then I will become a hostage to his whims. And there is no pleasing his fragile ego.

Best of luck to all of us in healing.

Grace 753 said...

OK OK I've read most of your comments here and I would like to offer YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO CHANGE AND MAKE NEW CHOICES in how you think and behave even though your parent is an A hole. Your parent made/makes bad choices-but you dont have to follow in their footsteps and repeat it and or make yourself sick because they can have lost control.
I am the daughter of a Narc Dad. He may also be bi polar, nuts, ex alcoholic whatever, but going to a psych type to find out will never be on his agenda because he is smart enough to know what they would tell him and it wouldn't be flattering. He is rude horrible and charming I knew he was a nut job at the age of 5 from constant abuse. Iam 55 years old.
I could write a book but since most gals here are talking weddings--my sister did a brilliant thing which I'd like to share.
Twenty two or so years ago my dad traveled out to see me and my sister and brother ((we all moved 3000 miles away from him-((thats a healthy choice )).
When these visits occurred I was sure my dad premeditated the abuse he would lay on us. One of such abuses was him acting shocked and concerned that I had sex with my husband as I held my newborn 2nd child. (no I'm not kidding-its called f ing with peoples heads)
My sister chose to get married by a justice of the peace...right after he (bad dad) left for home. It was a lovely peaceful joyous small party and they have been happily married to this day. Dad was not happy that he was not able to ruin it. Do what you gotta do.
Talk the talk and walk the walk will Prove to "yourself" its your life and the power is yours. I'm not saying this was easy- I almost lost the battle with severe depression, anxiety, self sabatoge - but you can get stronger and be in the power position. When they lie-just do not pay any attention-they will try to take you down when they do not get their way to put you in one down position-they will take you down if you agree with them. I perfectly understand you would have liked a "semi "normal" parent. They do not change but YOU can.

Anonymous said...

I would like to comment on an earlier post on frontal Lobe dementia. My father developed this condition and it was sad and desperate however my mother was Narcissistic all her life. I had some support and understanding about my fathers condition because everyone could see how horrible his behaviour was. However my mother was either being the life of the party or the poor wounded marter. she was the type of person that strangers really liked; I think if she had not had children she could have lived a good life. People are complex and it is not black and white but I found that I did not really recover from my childhood until I just accepted that I would never have a 'normal' relationship with her and had really to stop listening to any emotional content in conversations. this was hard as I was trained from birth to notice and feel responsible for how she felt. I had carried that inverse nacissism into a marrage with an other charming narcissist and it almost distroyed me befor I left. My tips-1 get help, see a therapist or join a support group, 2 recognise the narcissism in yourself - thinking that you are much worse off or more damaged than anyone else can become a type of nacissism.3 refuse to second guess the 'hidden meaning' in remarks or asides from your parent.
4 learn and practice assertive communication

Anonymous said...

I too, am the daughter of n-parents and of my 6 sisters and one brother, only one of them I'd say is not narcissistic. As a result, as an adult I found myself on a place I simply had to find a way to exit from,and I spent years in therapy and also doing some thinking and as far as I'm concerned I'm prety ok after all and I have a motto: Its only possible to get along with a n if yo're one of them.

Anonymous said...

My Dad is definitely a narcissist. I can very much related to so many of the stories I've read here. Fortunately my siblings and I live a good distance away and have little contact with him. His ex-wife, who has maintained a close friendship with him, is his caregiver and is receiving the brunt of his verbal and emotional abuse.

I'm wondering if anyone here has had the experience of a terminally ill N parent refusing necessary medical treatment?

He has gone as far as to check himself out of the hospital (2 times) and refuses at home physical therapy. It seems odd to me that an N would not do something that was in their best interest, but then again according to him all the Drs. and other medical staff are (insert curse word of your choice) idiots and he tells them that to their face.

Anonymous said...

I am currently trying to find ways to deal "nicely" with my father and his undiagnosed illness. His MD and a psychologist have both stated he likely has the narcissistic and paranoid Personality disorder. However, Mom (his slave for many years) has passed recently and now we are left with trying to cope and live our lives with him. Thank you for sharing your story. It is nice to know we are not the only ones out there. I'm still lost... but desperately trying to find my way to balance life with him in it. Finding that it may be impossible.

Anonymous said...

Gone no contact with N-mother.
Enabling father lost in the crossfire due to not realizing she would "upgrade" to someone better if he stopped being such a hard worker.

You clue-in when you have children and realize how wrong their behavior was.

The "don't play their game or be like them" is as wrong headed as "it takes two to tango": we are either an N and do not care or are not and are so very much not like them. Bad behavior deserves "punishment" by not being the audience they crave.

For the particularly punishing N like I have experienced, no contact is the only method since exhibiting such glee in trying to wreck their son's life is a bit of a horror show both to adults and their children.

A bit put-off with those who respond with little empathy: a symptom we have seen enough of.

Still have strong anger. Still have sorrow for the mother I did not have. Still worried about the "not feeling anything" when faced with strong emotions which also could preclude feelings of sorrow or mercy.

I was adopted, my dad was adopted, my eldest son was adopted. It is who raised you that is your parent. My dad was limited but what little he did was appreciated. Now all I do is worry about creating a spoiled monster out of my sons... there is just no winning with these N people being in your headspace.

Anonymous said...

I am sorry to say that each story probably could be our own, I have to say the most important thing I've taken away from having an N Dad is that you can't let the abuse touch your life or that of your own family, I chose to shut my father out after 32 years of abuse and never being good enough as if the embarrassment we've all had to contend isn't bad enough the thought of my father ever treating my children the way he did I woud kill me, I don't have any children yet but as my husband and I are starting to plan I knew for the sake of my children I had to try and get some sort of relationship or walk away, I had to walk away I love my father but he's had his own way too long now and he won't hurt my children, I agree one day when I have a family of my own they may ask and ill respond that I loved my daddy but he was difficult, my father is almost 70 but he won't come looking for my children so there won't ever be an issue, my husband and I ave been together 15 years and married 4 years, he's a wonderful man and he will be a great dad. My best advice fom my experience never ask them for anything and try to live without them if you can, I've now managed as there is someone in my life more important tan waiting for my Dad to love e which he ever will but I am not a child anymore I don't need him I would love him to love e I've my friends fathers do their daughters but I know now he never will. I had 6 months once a week council sessions when I was 21 which helped clear alot up ad I've spent the last 11 years popping and in and out wishing he'd love e but he won't , he's destroyed my brother and sister as he gives them free houses, cars etc, I'm th odd one I've ever taken a penny, I don't want anything and I thought it woud prove I love him and he'd love me one day but it didn't work and I now know why, my siblings thins I'm the crazy one but I'm free he doesn't own me and my children will never be treated as I was his are dies now. I have my mum because they had a successful business which tey built up together as both were very hard workers mum did it because she loved it Dad because he's bam pot but my mum still running it her way now and he's running out of hs power money as buying houses, cars and bank rolling my siblings and the god digger 15 years younger he eft my mum for 15 years ago is expensive so hs divorce settlement s running out and he's getting more bitter by the day as my lovely loving mum just keeps working, keeps being brilliant, happy and my fantastic mum who was always there and who got out to be herself without him, so pease all think about cutting those who hr yu out as they don't live I they need you to feed their own insecurities, if you can think positive an think what you'd say to someone in your shoes I think you'd say walk away, live your own happy life, people leave abussive partners, why not parents and get your mums or yours dads away from them or if your lucky you N parent skill,leave and it crush the parent you ave left until they see tat N partners was a user and tey can and will be just fine without them, my mums a new woman shed ave still been dressing, feeeding, washing, shaving and running a company single handed by te end to feed this monster, so don't let em use money to keep you unde contol, work hard, save abd getaway I did and ill eve look ack, he doesn't own me and don't let your abuser do it to you, please and I hoe someone reads something they can se from my expence to move forward and keep positive and don't et te abse near your children remember how awful it was for us x

Anonymous said...

Hi my above message has so many letters missings I used an iPad which sees to have issues with this format, hope it makes enough sense but my short message woukd read,

Stay positive, talk to a councillor, make your own life and cut them out and neve ever ever feel guilt that it was ever your fault, it wasn't

Take care of your own please never let them hurt your partner or children take the power away from them please, sorry letters still missing but I hope I help someone as these individuals should not be allowed to be parents although I thank him as I wouldn't be me without him but I'm taking the best part with me and leaving behind the worst, please all do the same as life is not a rehearsal it's here to be lived and we're here to love and be loved ;)

Anonymous said...

Hi same anonymous as above, I understand that unless N parent leaves your abused parent as mine did walking away probably means leaving the abused parent too but I always loved my mum and always will but remember abused too and can't be themselves until they get away, remember they didn't really help when you were a child as they probably couldn't so they won't stop it for your children but if like me you always felt loved by your non N parent in my case my mum and when Dad wasn't there she was a different woman then I hope the N parent leaves like mine did, I'm just fortunate that my parents had worked are enough for my n dad to buy a younger woman as if there hadn't been the money to do this he'd still be here, my mum was devastated when he left she didn't know what to do I nearly lost her again but she's strong and she always was he'd just brow beat her for so long she didn't know what to do if she wasn't putting him bore her own needs after 35 years of marriage but she's great now I think she'll always love the man she married but she stopped liking him and respecting him a long tim ago and he looks at his now and feels pitty for him while he runs around drunk, still chasing women young enough to be his daughters or even grandaughters and bad mouthing my mum and I that we'd be nothing without him an my siblings and his gold digger comforting him.

I might sound bitter and I am a little that my dad didn't or couldn't love me but I know e doesn't actually love anyone not even himself but people have far far worse fathers than mine, I was always cared for fed, clothed, christmas, birthdays probably my mum to be honest but he did at least behave as best he could on birthdays and christmas and he screamed a lot but he never hit, I do however miss my siblings but they are doing their own thing and I'm happy for them but I wish they could see what I see, maybe they do but they need to play along for the money bt it does mean tat they do shut myself and mum out as dad doesn't like them speaking to us so they don't let him know but to be honest they only ever visit when they want something but I just don't give them anything anymore so they visit less which s bet as they get quite annoyed when I don't pay along but ill never shut them out but they are staying away mst f the tie but I am so happy and I have a we life ahead and iI'll protect my children and arter from this and stay positive as that's what I've learnt from him he was hard working and he never gave up those we're the qualities that I can look back positively on, he did provide us with a good life ok it was all for him and not for s but I've taken it away and I work hard and I'm the best I can be although there's always someone better tan us which my faster woukd never accept but being my best is all I strive for and I'm doing t fr a better life and so my family will have a enter life not fr my ego, my ami,y won't remember a clean house r money but they will remember a wife, daughter, sister, mother be day who loved them and spent time with thm and who was always there no matter wat, I have the right balance I know I do of looking fr me and and family as it can be all for ters and nit yourself but it will never be all for me or him!!! I hope you can all find a askance and be your best and make great memories to overwrite the ones thu gave us, all I hoe my children never ask but f they do ill only answer positives ill never bad mouth him or run him down o them but I I can say he'll never meet them as they'd never be god enough and to survive an N parent you need to be very strong, love yourself and others, be kind but not a mug either and protect your wn from them as best you can as you know what they are no one else sees it unless they are a professional or have be themselves, take are all and learn from them but don't copy their beavior or et it grw in you ;)

Anonymous said...

I don't want to come across as insecure but my posts rarely make sense due to having to preview to edit mistakes or missed words after each correction I thins it's this tablet as it seems to always mess up when you type into these little message boxes but again due what's best for you and your family and removing these vampires is it I promise as I don't even talk about to ably why these posts are so rant like I just hope you can get sat it and see it hurts lie ell shutting them out it took me 32 years and 11 years after 6 months o counciling as it's a time thing and I think the thought f my kids ever being treated like crap by him was the final straw please don't let them ear children its not fair, I considered nit having children so e couldn't damage them but he'd be winning so its good bye to him I'm sorry to say but be n,y has himself to blame and I'm sure e doesn't care so don't feel you owe them anything your life has been twice as hard working out how to behave in life as they were no help unless you want to an N like them and abse others all your life o when th notion takes you to get your own way, learn off good people what you want to be like my grandparents I wanted to be like them they wer loving and caring that's how I want to be remembered not lie him

Anonymous said...

This brings up so many issues with my own father. I love him. I truly do, although sometimes I need to remind myself. When I was younger, he would waste money and there was more than one time I went hungry because of it. He would fly into these self asborbed rages for no apparent reason. He's beat me, but it was always somehow my fault and I long learned I would never do anything right in his eyes. He'll help me just to remind me about it later so I owe him. On mulitple occasions, he's stolen money from me and once took over a house I was renting to the point I had to move. The bad thing now is that he's rather old and sick - and so many people want me to take care of him. They say, "He's your poor, old Dad. You need to be there for him." They never bother adding it's because they don't want to be responsible for him. My health is bad (I'm in end stage renal failure awaiting a new kidney), but that rarely matters to him. No matter how sick I am, he's sicker. I'm expected to wait on him hand and foot. I feel guilty because I've put up this wall so he won't hurt me, but I know he'll take advantage if given half a chance. I love my father and want the best for him, but I can't allow myself to continue being his victim.

Anonymous said...

I'm 44 years old and have wondered all my adult life why such a struggle exists between me and my self-absorbed dad (and supportive to that end mom). I'm reading many posts and comments and know that my "only child" father with all his angry outbursts and need for attention, and seemingly utter disregard for others, is the narcissistic descriptions I'm reading in this blog. I want to thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Anonymous said...

I just got a call from my father who was calling me to accompany to home for lunch - while I am at office and just came with him to office an hour back. I was reading this blog and looks like my dad also fits the bill. I thought that he is suffering from some mental problem and in fact my brother and I, have also taken him once to a doctor. But that did not work. He is always wasting money and working on some real estate projects that never materialize fully. We are scared that he will leave us a debtor by his irresponsible spending. But what to do now is the question. I can ask him to leave me but then he will create more problems for my mom. My wife already hates me that I got him to live with us and is tired of meeting is constant demands of food. He gets up very early in the morning and then sometimes he sings so loudly that entire neighbourhood can hear. When mom asks him to sing in low tone, he gets enraged and starts talking all bad things that happened to him in past due to my mom. Seriously it is very tough to deal with him.

Anonymous said...

Hi. Maybe I missed something, but I have not seen in all these comments anything like The malignant narcissistic leech father that I survived. He started trying to murder me when I was still in my crib. He leeched onto his mother; then he leeched onto My mother. After she died, in part due to him, he leached onto his mother again, and then onto me. I was not in the third grade yet when I became responsible for everything my mother had done--shopping, cleaning, cooking, laundry--getting cursed at daily. Due to his practice of talking to himself, I did know that it was his intent to"...break her mind so she can't leave me..." Yet at the same time this raving, screaming, cowardly beast was still trying to strangle, drown, and beat me with his fists. he also tried to "share" me with some of his filthy "friends". I managed as a middle school child, not five feet tall, to defend myself from this six feet tall man quite a number of times. When I was thirteen or fourteen, He pointed a loaded 12 gauge shotgun at me--finger on trigger--and I managed to talk him down and get him to give me the weapon. At sixteen, he beat me unconscious and brutally raped me. Two weeks later, He informed me that "a decent woman would kill herself after what you've been through". On and on. I eventually got old enough to work and escaped. He kept following me. I kept hiding and shaking and puking. Turned out as with most narcs., people who didn't live with him were giving him information and telling me what an ungrateful daughter I was. "Your father LOVES YOU !, they'd say. To this day, I sometimes go into shakes and anxiety attacks if I smell cigarettes and cannot see who is smoking. I get this wild terror that he is not really dead and he has found me again. You know what, after I escaped--he went back to mooching on his mother. He also raped this elderly mother. He thought he owned me. Every morning I face the morning sun and thank my God for life, for bring me through the night unmolested, for sustaining me to the present moment, for freedom, for eternal life. Gratefulness gives rise to hope. After all of this and quite a bit more--I love people and animals. I am working on getting credentialed as an energy healer. Today, in this comment, is the first time I have put so much down in writing and done do concisely, and clearly. I thank you all for bearing witness to my experience. There is quite a lot that narcissists have in common with demons. I've been researching this in the last several months. They both have the same methods; the same objectives--to steal kill and destroy their victims. Check this out for yourselves, folks. I do not exaggerate. maybe most of us have not had quite so hard a journey as my case has been--still we all walk the same path. It hurts in ways that it takes years to formulate words for. Please pray that I succeed at my goal in this new career. I will be remembering all you other children of narcissistic abuse. Bless you all. Thank you.

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Anonymous said...

This comment should be reported. Fuck you.