Monday, March 24, 2008

I Can't Stand My Father

Here's the truth.

I can't stand my narcissistic father. I can't even explain, properly, how much I loathe him. How much I am filled with dread at the mere prospect of spending a half-hour with him.

I've always hated for him to kiss me. I sit as far away from him as possible. I think he's weird and sort of creepy. After a couple of minutes in a room with him, I want to escape. I feel absolutely no warmth or affection for this man and his endless chatter.
He makes my ears hurt and my skin crawl.


It is some comfort that he's not my biological father. Maybe that explains it. Some social worker back in 1960 decided that I'd become his daughter. Maybe that's why I have never, ever felt like I was actually connected to this guy, who was badly abused and neglected as a child. This boy-man whom I was forced to emotionally caretake. (My mother told him to keep his mouth shut during the homestudy)

Somebody once suggested that he may have sexually abused me as a kid. That while I may not remember it - I don't - that the body never lies and the revulsion I feel may explain why I can't stand being around him. I don't know. I just don't know.

Maybe it's because I don't feel safe around him. How can you feel safe around someone who is so relentlessly needy?

I think it's possible that I might have cut him off if I'd been his biological child. For those of you who aren't adopted, it may be hard to understand how much we adoptees internalize all those messages that we should be grateful for our adopters...even if our adopters are not nice people. That we should be forever grateful for being "rescued" and, at least, "you had a home and weren't raised in an orphanage."

My self-centered adoptive mother constantly called me, "ungrateful"....after all she'd done for me. Once I asked, "Like what?" and she listed all the regular chores of motherhood, like fixing dinner and driving me to school.

I think this has made it harder to detach from my narcissistic parents. Besides being trained to serve, I was trained to be grateful.

I'm not asking any of you non-adopted folk to weigh in on this, but I'd really like to hear what sort of reaction YOU have to your narcissistic parent(s).

58 comments:

Liesel Elliott said...

I've been wanting to leave a comment since I started to read your blog, so many of the things you write hit home with me. My mother is a narcissist and my father was raised by two narcissists. We were never close, as in affectionate, so I can't speak to the revulsion you mention, because we never touched!
But the thing that struck me as I was reading your post was my hatred of gifts from my mother. It didn't surface until I left her house and then when I was in college and she sent me a package for Valentine's Day or Easter, it would make my skin crawl and I would weep because I was so angry. No one understood why I did this...it wasn't until recently when I started putting it all together that I realized I felt this way because every gift from her was a trap! She never, ever gave out of generosity or love, but rather to trap someone else. Either so that they owed her, or in my case, if I didn't give her a big enough gift in return.

I try really hard not to hate my mother. But the closest I come is to not care about her at all. I try to teach my son about who she is, and what to expect from her, while at the same time not spreading the sort of venom that my mother did with my grandparents.

These people they are so exhausting!

Nina said...

Liesel,

You have no idea how comforting your comment is. Negative feelings about one's own parents are hard enough to admit...the fact that you can't stand them makes me feel like a very bad, evil person. I've been very guilty since this last post and your comment was both interesting and reassuring.

Mmmm. Gifts. With strings the size of nautical ropes attached! The way we feel about our narcissistic parent is going to express itself, at some point, in a pretty visceral way. One can't bottle it up forever and it seems you began to feel free enough to express it once you left her house and domination. By "give her a big enough gift in return," do you mean an actual gift...or compliance and attention?

I try hard not to hate my father, too. I think it manifests itself as feelings of dread that I can't control...although I have achieved some sort of emotional detachment so I'm not in a state of constant inner turmoil.

Ah the venon...that at least we can avoid...it's so awful to be around!

Very glad to hear from you!

littlegirllost said...

I grew up hearing "if there was 1 piece of bread left I would give it to you kids"(of course by brother the favorite would get a bigger piece) what a woman!! Mother of the year!! then there was, "I stayed with your father all those years for you kids" gee thanks mom, he was emotionally abusive & pitted my brother & I against each other. Narc mom could blow Bette Davis out of the water with her great acting skills!! I HATE accepting gifts from her, she would buy me clothing and if I happened to be wearing something she bought me she would grace me with a compliment (that was really meant for her, she has such good taste) of course if I was wearing something I purchased myself then no compliment was forth coming.
I used to think mmmm could I be adopted? then everything would make sense. I have no communication with my family for awhile now, nacr mom 3 1/2 years, dad is 12 years & the creep my brother is going on 8 years. I have to remind myself every so often that it's not me it'sthem.

Nina said...

Little Girl Lost,

It seems quite a few of our narcissistic mothers were frustrated actresses who's performances were Oscar-worthy!

I can just HEAR your mom giving the ole What-I-Gave-Up-For-You monologue and imagine your pained (or numbed) expression. I suspect you didn't protest too much...probably even as a teenager. Were you a relatively compliant teenager?

Both you and Liesel mentioned getting gifts that weren't gifts at all...more like little wrapped burdens. It seems this is a topic worth further exploration! There's one "gift" I blocked out...until now...yuck.

enilina said...

Ug, the endless chatter.
It goes on and on and on about nothing! Definately nothing about their children and if it is about their kids it's nothing positive.

"How can you feel safe around someone who is so relentlessly needy?"

You hit the bullseye there; so relentless needy that it caused intense revulsion in their children, like we knew it wasn't natural along with the feeling of disgust at their parastical helplessness. I too had wondered why I hated hugging my parents (they never touched me either) and the thought of physical contact made my skin crawl. I knew I hadn't been sexually abused but at the time (1980s/90s) that was the go-to answer for kids shunning innocent physical contact so I couldn't figure out where my revulsion was coming from.

Later when my boyfriends would first get grabby the same revulsion rose up in me, I was mad that these men who couldn't seem to control themselves. I looked down upon them and soon ended the relationships. It took several years for me to realize I had viewed my parents' self absorbtion as a form of lack of control, like small children throwing emotional killing temper tantrums.

Whenever "adopted" and "grateful" are used in the same sentence I cringed and feel sick. In speech class in high school one classmate explained that prospective adoptive parents are screened for such behavior and not allowed to adopt; I'm sorry your parents fell through the crack even when the social worker knew something wasn't quite right with your dad. If my mom had been allowed to adopt you bet she would expect daily dose of gratefullness. Everytime she sees an adopted kid she says "That child must be GRATEFUL to her parents. Scott Hamilton is surely GRATEFUL to his parents." etc etc. I remember reading an interview of a black ballet dancer whose foster father told him nearly every damn day that he should be grateful to him (the dad) for fostering him.

EnzGrl said...

Hi Nina,

Oh my, you are *so* not alone in this at all. Frankly, I hate my aparents. I want *nothing* at all to do with them. Sometimes I read your blog and I can't believe all of the stuff you do for your adad - calling, visiting, sending him stuff, etc. - I could never do that!

I finally *really* pissed my aparents off 10 years ago by running off with my now-husband and not telling them I had even moved to a different state (long story). They managed to track me down and since then I haven't exactly gotten gifts from them, but I used to hate gifts too, because I was supposed to fall all over myself with gratitude when really the gifts were about what my amother wanted to give, not about what I wanted to receive. They also had strings atached, like the time my amom sent me cash to get a manicure, which I told her I didn't want to do (they're a waste of time in my opinion), and then she spent the next 3 weeks nagging me daily about getting a manicure. Wow, what a great "gift!" Ha ha.

I also hate gift giving, because no gift is ever good enough for amom, and even on Christmas, when I was a child, none of her gifts would be received with any gratitude, and in fact she would spend most of the day crying and screaming about how if we really loved her we would have gotten her the fabulous gifts she wanted but mysteriously had never asked for.

I call on their birthdays and maybe at a random time here and there but I hate doing it, and I get a knot in my stomach for days before and after. I do feel guilty, though - don't get me wrong. I wish I could be a better person and just deal, but I just can't.

Another thing that triggered for me in your post was the whole gratitude for normal things, i.e., making dinner, etc. I had the same thing! I was relentlessly criticized all my life, but when I was in high school I would try to point out that I was a good student, didn't get in trouble in school, didn't get brought home by the cops from drunken parties, etc., and I'd get screamed at about how much they sacrificed for me, how ungrateful I was, etc. I too was called ungrateful all the time, and I too cringe when people expect adoptees to be grateful for whatever they got. But that's another rant!

Sorry to go on and on, I just want you to know that you are some kind of hero to me, that you do what you do. You are definitely a better person, and a more compassionate person, than I could ever be! - Anne

littlegirllost said...

Hey Nina,


I learned to shut my mouth at a very early age. Even though my brother was always her favorite, I guess because he played her like a record, he gave her the admiration she soooooo craved. I just shut my mouth and tuned out emotionally. I would hear years later that I am COLD & UNLOVING, perhaps this was her doing??? I might be cold & unloving, but only towards her. She also called me a "p*ssy" (as in cat) telling me I had no backbone & could not stand up for myself with other people. DUH!!! I was trained to be a p*ssy by her. I should stand up for myself with others, but I'd better not even try that with her, I would be banished!! Actually I am banished presently for protecting my son from her. I remember her driving me home after a religious class and I was singing a new song we learned. As we pulled into the driveway she looked at me and said "I hope you're not thinking of singing for a living" I asked why and she said something to the effect of I'd be poor for life. I WAS 6 YEARS OLD!!!! God when the memories come back to me I get so disgusted. Now that I am a parent I dispise her more that ever.

Elizabeth

Nina said...

Enilina,

Mmmmm....grabby boys and men....they used to make me uncomfortable, too...claustrophobic, actually. There's so many traits and quirks - some of which I've shed over the years - that I've yet to revisit. Some I've been able to link to being raised by narcissistic parents. The more we can understand, the more we can overcome...if it's a problem.

As for adoption screening...yeah, social workers are SUPPOSED to, but there is no federal oversight...and it's not like social workers are screening for narcissistic traits (unless they are obvious). And as we know, most narcissists can initially be quite charming. Who you end up with, as an adoptee, is a total CRAPSHOOT!

It's really interesting to hear that your mom's immediate reaction to an adopted kid was to focus on the whole gratitude thing. To her, it must have seemed ideal! For some people, it never occurs to them that the parent should be grateful to the child for bringing happiness or fullness or whatever to their lives...it's all the other way round!

Nina said...

ANNE!


Damn, we all want to be better people. But what we REALLY want, I think, is to have the garden variety crazy parent who gets on our nerves but we love 'em anyway - and not the disturbed individuals who enslaved us with their needs or subjected us to demands no child or teenager could ever meet!

Most mothers would KNOW their daughter doesn't like manicures. Like my oldest. She thinks it's creepy! I can't imagine giving her money for one and pestering her about it! What I'm trying to say, Anne, is that this is significant because your mother isn't acknowledging YOU and your likes/dislikes...it's dismissing them...or ignoring them b/c she's too self-centered. And that's really, really sad.

And by the way, I'm the anti-hero. I'm a festering, angry boil on the face of the planet ready to pop...somedays, I'm so angry that if someone tapped me on the shoulder I'd probably knock their block off. It's just that I was blessed with a Major Guilt Complex...plus I'm an only child and literally, there's not one other person who could take him on...so I'm stuck!

ELIZABETH:

Or should I call you...Dear Cold and Unloving Sister!...HAR!!! I can't believe it! Is there a manual out there for Narcissistic Mothers that we don't know about???
My amom always called me, "cold," too...of course, it's hard to drum up a lot of enthusiasm for somebody who subjects you to the cold, silent treatment for weeks on end. Was also called, "weak" for not sticking up for myself!

"She also called me a "p*ssy" (as in cat) telling me I had no backbone & could not stand up for myself with other people. DUH!!! I was trained to be a p*ssy by her. I should stand up for myself with others, but I'd better not even try that with her, I would be banished!!"

Wow. EXCELLENT analysis of this particular mindf&#@. THAT is what was so weird about it.

I can't imagine saying something so mean to a 6-year old...but I think it's important for us to share these stories...because it actually happened and it WAS painful and it's way to get it out there...in hopes of letting it go...instead of the memories bogging us down.

littlegirllost said...

I have a question for everyone:
Do you feel empty inside? I guess what I mean is that I feel like I am missing a piece of the puzzle, everyone else has it except me. I sometimes feel like an outsider or a fake trying to pass myself as a normal person. I don't think others can understand the hurt and pain we've been through.
It feels so good to have feedback from this site.
I glad I found you Nina, now I am not so lost!! get it??!!

Elizabeth

Anonymous said...

Wow! let me just say i am so pleased to find there are other people out there like me. I have a father who i believe to have npd. I am not sure because he has never been diagnosed. My family has always known something was terribly wrong with him. We all got along with each other but no one got along with him. We dreaded seeing him come home. I remember the feeling of being nervous and absolute dread just heating his truck pull into out driveway. My brother is 31 years old and lives about three hours away. He only comes for a visit a couple of times a year now because of my father. I have tried to tolerate him as long as I could because of my mother, she is my best friend and to be completely honest, i feel sorry for her for having to live there with him.He would never let her work and he controls every aspect of her life, right down to how she wears her hair. He unbelievably jealous.
I guess the main reason I am writing this is because I suspect my father has npd, but have no way of knowing for sure because he refuses to believe that there is nothing wrong with him and he thinks therapists are a joke. He would never get help. He has destroyed our family. No one wants to go around him, he even made the comment that people he works with run away from him. when he walks into a room, they get up and leave. He brags about this as if it is a good thing. He is ALWAYS trying to shove his beliefs about the bible down peoples throat, trying to make the believe the same way as him, so in turn he thinks he is "doing his job as a christian" but what he dosen't understand is he runs people off. my mother has been a Christian as long as I can remember, and they belong to different churches. It has gotten so bad that he has my mom not even wanting to go back to church. You cannot have a conversation with my dad, because as soon a you try to initiate it, he takes it away and makes it all about him and will go on forever. You never get a word in with him. He also is obsessed with not "keeping up with the Jonses" it is like he is so unbelievably insecure that he is always making a point to others that he does not feel inferior to them because they have money, so he will only drive old beat up clunkers and wears old cloths. He hates anyone who he thinks may look down there nose at him because they my have nice clothes or drive nice cars. He has a very good job but refuses to have anything nice, just to prove a point to people. My brother and I were never allowed to have opinions about him or God forbid we ever told him he was wrong about something, he would flip out if we did. We just always had to sit and listen to his mouth until he got done and act like we liked it. Anything he believes, you must believe it too right down to a certain food he likes, he will try his best to make you like it also, and if you didn't try it he gets mad. I could go on and on, but before i ask anymore questions, i would just like to know your opinion as to whether or not you may believe he is effected with this disorder. Any advise as to how to get him to realize he has a problem or what my family can do would be greatly appreciated. please respond as to whether or not you believe he has npd. Thanks
Needs answers

Nina said...

Dear Needs Answers,

First, sorry to hear about your father. He sounds very exhausting to be around. And mean, too.

I am not an expert and pretty lousy in the Giving Good Advice Department, but I wouldn't expect him to change at his age. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I don't think full blown narcissists CAN change. From what I've read, there seems to be some consensus amongst experts that people w/NPD resist therapy, if they go at all. I'd certainly love to hear from anybody who has seen an full blown narcissist modify their behavior with some therapy!

As for getting a diagnosis, my father got one only after he entered an assisted living facility. His disruptive, needy behavior prompted a visit from a psychologist who then called with many questions. Basically, he wanted to know which behaviors were new and possibly linked to dementia and which behaviors were old. When he asked if my dad was always that self-centered and talked nonstop and shallow in his emotions and relations w/others, I said yeah, that's the way he's always been. That's how my dad was diagnosed. I just don't want you to think I dragged my father into a therapist's office!

My advice would be to check out some of books listed as links and see how much your "Oh My God! That's My Dad!" alarm bells go off. That may be enough. Dunno. Whether your father has full blown NPD or is Christian Control Freak with narcissistic traits may be nice to know, but the fact is...you're dealing with someone who just couldn't SEE or ACKNOWLEDGE you...so you, your brother and mother are dealing with, well, a whole lot of crazymaking stuff.

The good thing is...you are not alone.

roxtarchic said...

anger and disgust... anger that our childhood was never what it should have been and disgust at the man he is...

and i find myself envious that you can say "at least I'm not biologically connected to this man" that is a WONDERFUL thing to be able to claim...

i also find myself baffled that you havent done for yourself what you should do to protect yourself... that you're still caring for them.... i was always my fathers keeper, trying to placate & fix things & win approval... until i got pregnant & it dawned on me that MY BABY is the number one... and that my father should have felt that way and didnt *thus the anger*

i will tell you... wholeHEARTEDLY it's amazing to be able to have separated myself from him... (it wasnt easy at the time) http://roxtarchic.blogspot.com/2007/04/tears-of-tar.html

thank you this is sooo therapeutic! thank you for this blog

Nina said...

Roxtarchic,

Hah! I wish I got both a clue and a backbone, earlier too...but it took snapping out of my adoption induced fog and dealing with that before I figured out my adad was a narcissist...mostly b/c he was diagnosed when he entered an assisted living facility. VERY late bloomer. So basically, I got stuck with the care of two self-centered parents b/c I was in major denial and trying to be the dutiful, grateful adopted daughter. For the record, your way is much, much healthier!

Anonymous said...

I feel revolted when my mother tries to hug me or even when she says that she loves me. Sometimes I force myself to mutter the phrase back.

Probably because she has a habit of screaming and criticising me for hours, and then when I am completely broken down and crying (This is when I was a kid) she would ask me what was wrong! Then try to comfort me rubbing her hand on my back. It just felt uncomfortable. Not quite right. Then she would demand me to explain why I was sad.

Anonymous said...

little girl lost. I definitely feel empty inside. Most of the time I am in perpetual depression and when I smile and laugh it is generally hiding how sad I really am.

Anonymous said...

hey, its good to read your post and realise that npd parents are really that bad. i have a npd mother and i hate her. i feel so sad that i tried for so long to make her happy but whatever i did was never enough. i could never get it right. When she cried and i would hug her she would push me away. its only now after 10 years away from home that the realisation comes that actually i,m not crazy my mother really did hate me and was always trying to keep me in place. what hurts the most is that she would deliberately do or say things to hurt me over and over again even when i told her how much she hurt she laughed and kept doing it. she took pleasure from my pain. from then on i hid my feelings so as not to give her an opportunity to relish my suffering. She would routinely tell people what a difficult child i was. Every night i could hear her telling my father in bed how she hated me and what an evil child i was. She would tell lies about me. thank you for sharing your story its helps to know that there are others who have survived the same kind of circumstance. peace and love k

iradessa said...

Wow. I identify big time. I lie with that revulsion every week. He makes me want to puke. He is my bio dad and I have never connected. SOme adoptive parents are amazing. But I think I can understand how someone who is adoptive has been "trained to be grateful" it'
s what happened to me. And I am not adopted. I have just started to take a look at this stuff and it is unsettling. This is where I belong and I have been through other processes that have not been pretty, but this is making me really uncomfortable. I think mainly because I feel stuck they only live 20 minutes from me and my Dad insists oncoming to all my son's bball games and he is so embarassing. I am going to start to try to cut back on it if I can. The thought that I find most difficult is that I soooo look forward to his death. And as much as I think and feel that is an ugly thing to say I feel safe that I can say it here. Tools I need tools on how to deal..I am a single mother therapy is too costly but I am determined to dig. I can't wait for him to die for me to get better.

Anonymous said...

When I was under the age of ten I thought seriously about running away and when that seemed to be a bad option to escape I thought about suicide and death in general. I got to thinking what would happen if my mother died and this realization hit me that I wouldn't be able to cry for her. This scared me.

I knew that I wouldn't feel sad that she was gone. It terrified me because I knew that I should.

I knew what people expected and I was terrified at the thought of being at the funeral and everyone wondering why I wasn't sad at all and perhaps even hating me for not feeling sad.

I tried so hard to love her but my indignation at the injustice she dished out, the commands that required immediate attention the insane punishments, the hours of being attacked, ridiculed, belittled and so on it all adds up and I cannot truly love her. I can just want her to be happy but that is about it.

I don't like being hugged or touched by her. It just feels so fake. Now that I have outright refused to let her hug me she is trying to hug me all the time. Aaaargh. I am so sick of pretending that everything is hunky dory.

One of the reasons for this dislike of her touch is because she would yell at me for hours when I was young and after I was completely broken down and crying when she finally let me go to my room after a while she would come in and rub my back and try to comfort me when she was the cause of all the pain. It felt so weird. Kind of like your worst enemy completely ruining your life and then 20 minutes later he/she comes back and tries to repair it for you.

Needs answers yeah I think your dad is a narcissist either way he is a jerk. He is like my n mom when I point out how she does something that is wrong or that it hurts me no matter how nicely and politely I put it she explodes like an atomic bomb and keeps on going for hours.

Well if your dad is like my mom there is no hope in getting through. What rarely works is try to make it seem like it has nothing to do with him being bad etc just something you don't like and perhaps he can take the hint. You have to word everything perfectly and make it look as though it has nothing to do with him.

Anonymous said...

I'm actually a little bit scared to post, as if my family might find this....though I am adult, now - over 40 even.
I have just this week realized that my Dad was a narcissist. I knew he was verbally abusive, emotionally abusive, and that I was absolutely crushed by him all the years I was growing up with him around. But I fully believe now, that he was NPD. I never felt I could tell others or get help though I felt close to suicide at times, because he did not physically or sexually abuse me. I thought telling would just get me blamed for being an ungrateful child, rebellious and 'uncontrollable', as I was told I was. I was told this, even though I never made bad grades, skipped classes, got into trouble, or did drugs or used alcohol - not to say I couldn't have easily done all of those things in my attempt to escape the madness I endured. But I was told I was uncontrollable and rebellious because I dared at times to try to answer back to Dad. Usually I held it in and like a sponge just soaked up the terror and demeaning words, and they shaped me. But then for some reason I would reach a time when I could no longer hold it in and I would let it rip, how I hated life and living with him and him, himself. Then I would be labled even worse, and treated like pure rubbish. And I felt like rubbish. I haven't had anyone to tell these things to...but I need to tell someone. It was horrible, living with him. When I turned 18, the summer after I graduated from high school, I bought a one way plane ticket and flew across the country to start life in a different place - I needed so much, to leave. Then I was just a lonely, lost girl struggling to make it on my own and I made several mistakes. I felt so alone without help. My Mom was wonderful, but so controlled by my Dad, and while she stood up for me oftentimes when I was home, once I left home, he convinced her I was terrible, rebellious and bad. I used to cry because all I really wanted was for him to love and hold me and to tell me he loved me. But he never did. Although I am not adopted, my brother was, and I wonder sometimes what all he must go through having been brought into our family and such pain. Because I was not adopted, but was the first child born to my Dad, and my Dad's sister's first child has been schizophrenic his whole life, I struggled intensely with feeling mad myself and wondering if I were schizophrenic, or going to be. I probably skirted the edge of madness for many years.
Things have changed so much, now, come full circle almost. I have moved back to the state where my parents are; forgiven Dad. I prayed really long and hard one day after reading about sexually abused children and relized my Dad had 16 traits of a sexually abused person, and after I prayed for several days, my Dad had a dream that he told to my Mom, and she told me what happened - his dream brought back memories to him of sexual abuse by his own mother which carried on into his teen years. That explained so much for me and helped me to forgive him. However, even with all this, I still had not realized that he actually had NPD and I have only now realized it this week. It helps fill in one more piece of the puzzle, and I finally feel free to recount to someone (to you) the terror, the rage, the madness and pain of having grown up under a parent with NPD. And yes, he talked incessantly and still does - about his interests and experiences. I always found it odd that he never stopped to let others talk or comment on their experinces. Thanks for listening.

Jess said...

Wow this is pretty similar to my situation. I am adopted as well, and have been feeling very uncomfortable and squeamish around my father at times. He makes innuendos in front of me, and it just makes my skin crawl some of his comments. I am 23 years old and due to some unlucky circumstances I had to move back home, and be around him literally 24-7. I'm just waiting so badly to get out, but right now I'm trapped until I can get my financial situation in order.

He is annoying, judgmental and very antisocial so he'll just rant about everything. But yes it's my fault right now I'm an adult but I don't feel like an adult at all right now. I have questioned whether something inappropriate has occurred when I was younger, and I don't think physical but it's still a strange father daughter relationship.

Anonymous said...

I'm not adopted, but I'm not even sure about that.

I mean my parents never even told me how they met, if they even got married. There are no pictures. It's like they're just there. And sometimes they tell me they're divorce, sometimes they don't. An my dad is so OLD. It annoys me so much. and I think my mom left me. It has been like 8 months. SO now im stuck with my stupid dad.

Omg, I hate him so much. Everything about him annoys me. The though of being related to him haunts me and annoys me to the extent of moving away right now. Even if his life sucks he should'nt have to ruin my life too. Maybe he inherrited his terrible personality from his mother. AKA my grandmother. Holy shit, she is twice as annoying.

You would expect me to love at least one aspect about here. But there is NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. She farts everywhere she goes and I'm not sure if she knows or not but she doesn't aploigize or excuse herself. OMG its soo disgusting. Shes practically blind, shes unbelieveably stupid and stubborn. She has been in Canada for what? 40 years, and doesnt know SINGLE WORD of english, not even the alphabet. I dread having contact with her or being related to her.

My dad. I hate that I use his money. His dirty money. His dirty life. I hate him.

Anonymous said...

Hi I am so glad I have found your site! I too have a narcisstic father and whilst I moved out of home 4 years ago, I now suffer panic attacks, IBS, and am a bag of nerves most of the time at the thought of having to speak or see him. i have bought children of the self absorbed and several others books which have been good and will shortly be starting to have councelling. I still see my parents regulary out of guilt but always leave with a knott in my stomach, and a red rash on my chest. It all got so bad at xmas that i told him how he makes me feel, big mistake, i was made to feel like the problem and was told i had rejected him and ignored for a week!! My dad is also an violent alcoholic which makes it doubly difficult when dealing with his narcissim. Moving out has made it worse where he comes round my house in the day when i am at work to look at things that "need doing" then offers his services, to which if they are refused, a barrage of abuse then follows. Once he even got someone to do my garden without me knowing because it was in his view unacceptable, and then asked me for the money!! He also liked to ring me at least two times or more times a day, and if I dared to say I was busy, or that I would call him back, he would fly off into an uncontrollable rage and not speak to me for weeks saying I've destroyed him and our family!!! To the outside he's the perfect responsible high positioned manager, but he treats his family like shit on his shoe. When I had to go to hospital, i rang my parents to tell them i was scared, and his reaction was to say " well look what you've dumped on us, how are we going to cope". I can relate to Liesel with her hatred of gifts, I too NEVER accept a gift because it always come with strings, or a reason for him have control over another part of my life. His latest obsession is offering to buy me a car, even though I have a perfectly good one. When I said as nicley as possible that I didn't need another car, i was told that its a much better idea than me wasting my money on the stupid holidays I go on (he hates holidays). If I was to accept the car i would be constantly reminded about what he's done for me. He is so controlling to my mum and i find myself enraged daily wondering how best to deal with his behaviour. I just hope the councellor can help me! i am so glad there are people here who go through the same torment! sorry to go on!

Kaylee said...

my dad is mean to me a lot too! I feel the same way. i want to run away so bad.

belu said...

OMG I didn't even know this disease existed. I think my grandmother may have it. She's the real person in charge in my family. My father's a complete loser who's never had the guts to move out of her house, of her sphere of power. He's been most of his life unemployed, always ranting about all his academic achievements but never caring to provide for his family. My grandmother reminds all of us CONSTANTLY about her great generosity. She owns our house and and the family business. She makes, directly or indirectly, absolutely every decision. I hate everything about her. I have fantasized several times about killing her, but I know I could never do anything like that.
I suspected she could be narcissistic because she also talks all day long about herself, why, SHE EVEN COMPLIMENTS HERSELF as she's doing house chores, or after cutting a deal. She's absolutely convinced she's perfect. She's cluttered our house with horrible miniatures that she's promised me will be my only inheritance "because I'm the only one who appreciates small things". I could never stand up to her. She was and is too evil.
Once, when I was 8 years old, I was setting up the table, and I noticed that if we had two seats less everyone would fit in confortably. I said so out loud to my sister, and my grandfather who was passing by glared at me, thinking I meant him and my grandmother, I expect, but it was just an innocent comment!!!
Later that day I was playing dolls with my sister and he came to fetch me, and grabbed me hard by the neck. He then half-dragged me all the way through the garden to the kitchen where my grandomether was and he pinned me to the wall, almost throttling me. She then started ranting about how ungratefull I was, how I was born by mistake (I'm the youngest) and how I wasn't in my parents plans and I was an unwanted baby. She went on and on and I think that was the worst day of my life.
Also, when my mother was not around, which was next to never as she doesn't have a social life, she would blame on her loads of nasty stuff, say she abandoned us and make her do all the work on top of having to pay for everything. She said so many lies about my mom.
I loathe her.But I think I detest even more my father, for never even trying to escape that awful reality even for our sake. I also feel the greatest revulsion for my grandfather, incredibly obsessed with academic achievements and lacking absolutely a mind of his own... he's a stupid, chauvinist (he loves to tell me how I'm only good to get a husband and do the dishes as I'm a girl) puppet whose strings are pulled by my demonic grandmother.
I'm also angry at my mother, even though I adore her and think she's a wonderful human being, full of love, for not realising sooner how sick my dad's family was (is). Why did you have 6 children if you knew your good-for-nothing of a husband wasn't going to be able to support us?
Right now, my 3 eldest siblings have left home and the 4th is about to. Soon it'll just be me and my schizophrenic sister. And this two SICK couples. My grandparents, the sickest of them all, and my parents, in a close 2nd position.

I've tried long and hard to forgive them for so many things... I wish I could've like you have, Nina, but some wounds run too deep...

:(

Anonymous said...

Reading all of these posts is comforting in a sick way....I agree with a few of you when you say you want your n parent to just die. It does sound bad, but I can't help but think how amazing it would be for my (unfortunately) bio father to be gone FOREVER.
That man crushed me to pieces. He's mentally, verbally and spiritually abusive (constantly placing himself on his own pulpit and preaching to us).
He is truely a monster and I HATE him!
My mom, two of my three brothers, and I finally moved out of the house in May and my mom is currently going through getting divorced from him.
The most annoying thing about the whole situation is, HE did everything wrong. HE abused everyone. Yet, you can tell someone the WHOLE story and they'll be on your side....until they talk/meet that horrible person. Then all of a sudden, they're thinking YOU'RE insane and can't for the life of them figure out why YOU would leave that sad innocent man....
After everything that he's caused, he'll lament to everyone how much he 'loves' us and how he did his best...
I'm just so upset. Even though I don't see him, I still feel tormented by him; like he's right next to me.
I feel like I want to cry,scream,kick,punch-whatever I can just to get this feeling out/off of me.
It makes me sick to think of him.
So here's a question:
Is it possible to be free of these people when they don't even have to be around to torment you? Can you eventually move on and let it go?

Anonymous said...

My mother ( unfortunately biological) has had the exact same effect on me. I felt revolted, yes skin crawl, a half an hour in her presence seemed unendurable. While others knew she'd been abusive to me, not a mother in any way, constantly put me down yet was demanding put on with greater feffect the sad lovely old lady as she aged. I had been wishing her dead , she finally did die (stretching the procees to the max)and am relieved she's finally gone. And yet it was a horrible feeling to have no honest alternative but feel this way, the sanest healthiest response, yet disappointing to need an ugly response as with others I'm nothing like it. One frustrating legacy is my brother who knows a lot of what she really was demanding to play public cutsies at the funeral & on her plaque for her ashes Unecessary lies and distortionshad been his choices of words where I had words that implied the same but only said the truth based on some strengths she had . Her ashes will spin in her box as she ends up with mushy family descriptions on them.
Those of her overseas background never knew this side nor others that were not too close to her inner loathed immediate family circle or imposed on certain arenas of her life that were in conflict to her aims. I am fine with those who only knew her better sides thinking well of her, even I can be positive about her as an interesting bright woman. I am still disgusted & loathe her if I think of her as a mother, she wasn;t to me. What hurts is that I get told I look like the one with the problem unlike my brother describing her as a wonderful dedicated loving mother and wife. Plus I must be consummed by hatred and bitterness for her by having that negative view . I'm not , worked through as much as one can as long as I am not forced to pretend she was a better mother than she was. What is frustrating is the ones saying this now are the same ones who have before said they saw how awful she was to me. And if I I don't smother this responsethe remaining trained sycophants will tell the nice ones who have no idea & I get exiled for her crimes impact on me. While I am at reasonably recovered place about the damage she'd done to me I still have to put extra thought & energy into nolonger being limited by the negative nessages she drummed into me about my supposed incompetance in nearly everything & in later middle age aquiring skills she did her best to ensure I wouldn't have in practical living. I still remeber the pathetic demands, the cloying appeals though at any point she could be snappy cruely critical. Narcissist ic parents do suck as it's hard to really keep away all the time. Narcissist parents are repulsive & make up sick look forward to their deaths. Their creepy foreigness is from the way they relate to us and are unlike other humans - no capacity to relate with envy & controll driving their abuse of us. Nothing to do with adoption or chances of sexual abuse
.My father wasn't as bad as her, he could be rather rigid & tough yet positive in other ways Except he too in keep her from wailing , carrying on, spilling his secrets of the past told in dumb trust to her ended up demanding we do whatever she was demanding to shut her up, regardless.Plus she set us up with him lying about us behind our backs.Therefore in most cases one narcissist parent subsumes the other if they haven't seperated early in the piece. And the worst thing is despite the narcissist parent having no real interest in us resenting our needs as children they are the most frequently demanding of our presence to play hommage to them and more target practice with us

Anonymous said...

Guys, reading all your posts convinced me I am not crazy. My parents need so much of me that it's absolutely exchausting to be close to them. Whatever I do is never enough and they like pretending I am the one being high maintenance!
It is so hard work to make them show love and support (make them, just to keep myself sane)
I'm 28 and probably there is no excuse why I still let them run the show for me and abuse me in such a way, but all this explains thoughts and feelings and choices I've made in my life that actually hurt me instead of making me happy.
Sorry for not being very clear but I'm in a rather bad emotional state lately, thinking how much I hate them and all the lost time I could have used to focus on myself and my needs.
Did I mention my sister is the same as a second child? Usually it feels like they are using me as their psychoanalyst whilst making me the villain!
I don't know why we have to put up with them just because they are our parents and I am GLAD times are changing and kids now are more conscious of the fact that life belongs to THEM and they don't really need their parents, as much as some would like to think so.
Woody Allen was in shychotherapy for years because of his unresolved issues with his parents...just pointing out that even the most intelligent ones have troubles like these. It just bloody happens and we shouldn't blame ouselves for it.

Nina said...

DECEMBER 1 ANONYMOUS,

You shared so many spot-on observations about having a narcissistic parent who dies...and you don't really miss then and what are we supposed to do with THAT weird feeling.

There's a hole in our life where nothing but negativity used to be. What goes in the space besides relief? I supposed we can try to revise our memories, but what's the use. Now that my self-absorbed adoptive mother has been dead for ten years, I've come to accept the reality of our relationship. We didn't have one. Before she developed Alzheimers, she'd pretty much stopped speaking to me b/c I moved away to go to college and had "left" her.

I'm wondering about your brother, though. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I used to sound like him...I'd been so trained to think my mother was wonderful and sacrificed so much for me...and that I owed her my life b/c she'd adopted me...and I said all those things at her funeral. Luckily, I don't have any siblings who weren't in denial. Is it possible he's still in the grateful son mode...repressing a deep inner rage?

Anonymous said...

I have just found your blog, so am only reading through it for the first time.

I HAD to comment on this particular post, because I know EXACTLY what it feels like to be physically revolted by your narcissistic father. I was also never physically abused by the man (not that I know of or can remember), but I cannot stomach the idea of touching him or being near him (and I'm not adopted).

He kisses me on the cheek, and it makes my stomach CHURN and skin crawl. He constantly hugs and touches me to "test" me - I can tell. He's trying to see if I hug him back, and then will complain that I don't hug him back.

Anonymous said...

Ai yes...My father...on top of being a narcissist he's a big intimidating fella and he knows it. I loath him, I want him to die. As I began to realize both my parents are deceiving narcissists I began to become somewhat scared of them...of course you shouldn't be, cause they're basically weak as hell...but...Their behaviour is just...psychotic...so freaking deluded,calculating, doublehanded, sadistic and the worst part...They are completely aware of this, otherwise they wouldn't disguise it. I mean...if you're going to be an asshole, fine...but these people they slowly and gradually cut your soul into fine pieces and then eat it. When you notice ...all I can do now is stand in awe at their absolutely disgusting snakelike behaviour. Especially when they're being nice to you like nothing ever happened I'm just in complete disbelief. Like watching a movie.

Anonymous said...

Also...I don't know about you guys, but cause of my parents I can spot narcissists pretty fast...If I would meet people like that in real life...I saw through their shit within a couple of days and just waited...when I'd had enough I'd ripped them to shreds verbally...They basically dig their own holes like insane moles and all you have to do is call them out on it infront of other people and without mercy. As with all bullies...One shot between the eyes and they back down immediately...Narcissists are so freaking easy to handle when they're strangers. But your parents...it's a different matter sadly. Just sucks...

Anonymous said...

I have coped with my elderly 73 year old father who I now realize he has NPD. All my life growing up, never has he ever gave me a pad on my shoulder but says "Why can't you be more like my friend's children? They are all successful and have respectable jobs and have children with a good wife, what have you got to show for the society? You're failure, always been a failure and you're no different than a minimum wage earning illegal immigrants, who has no future and always will be a bottom dweller. So you’re better off just giving up that dream about finishing college since you don't even have a brain to do anything right and you must work as a laborer for the rest of your life, this is your future and my life is ruined because it’s all your mother's fault my life is the way it is." I recently started looking online about his mood change, sudden temper change, always being defensive at almost any random questions and verbal abuse to me. Thinking it was Lyrica that gave him mood swings but he's been the same since I was a child. Physically abusive to my mother, sister and me black and blue. I have been looking after him, never leaving his side since 1999 from his work injury that left him permanently disabled and his last ex wife dumped him since he became no use to her and no money was coming in.

It is now 1-8-2011 and nothing has changed. Every 3 or 4 day, his personality change from a gentle sheep to a mad dog, bringing up his hatred towards my mother, events that happened over 40 years ago, forcing me to listen to the same story over and over with adding other issues that nothing to with anything. Holding back all the years of built up tears and anger from humiliation by my own father and releasing the fist I made while being scolded over a simple suggestion or question, I can't understand how someone can't not see what they are doing to his very own flesh and blood. Steve

Anonymous said...

I am not adopted, but my feelings are just the same as yours. They are the same right now. It took me approx. third part of my life to realise I have all the right to hate my father. I hope he didn't molest me when I was too young to remember, but he definitely liked playing doctors so he was a bit to touchy (I feel like vomiting thinking of that)

The thing that kept me away from hating it was that all the family believed that he just worships me and my bro. In fact ( and I probably shouldn't even explain it to you as you know it all) he worships only himself. My bro and I are something like beautiful dolls to show off to people around.

Oh...I hate him, hate him, hate him. I'm not going to change him or what people think about him I just allow myself to hate him as strongly as it takes to get as much of relief as possible.

I don't think you hate your father because you were adopted. You hate your father because he abuses you with every single movement, because he doesn't try, isn't able to notice that his present or his touch is unbearable to you. If he notices that he behaves like it's you who are so stupid in not accepting his divine attention.

Gosh... this people should never be parents either biological or not.
You've probably seen this article before http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html


I wish you luck and strength. Remember, you survived your childhood, so you are already a winner.

daughter of said...

My mother is the narcissist, my father the enabler. How they both try to bend us to their will! And the distorted 'memories'! It always amazes me at how much my mother 'remembers' helping me out with my son and while I was in university. I guess she considers standing beside me, telling me that I better get used to doing things by myself while im trying to put my little guy into the high chair and wrestle the chair-tray at a windy outdoor party 'helping.' Of course there were a bunch of people around, she does love an audience. She is also really good at recounting my childhood to my now teenage son. Interestingly enough, I don't remember it being that easy or carefree. so manipulative, too. If I start on that, I won't be able to stop.

Thanks for being so candid. I thought I was alone.

Jane said...

 I'm in the process of cutting off my narcissistic parents and am so glad to find this blog--thanks for sharing your experience.  Im really blown away by the similarity of so many of the experiences people mention here. I was adopted at two months, but wasn't really made to feel ungrateful for that in particular.  I was often accused of being "spoiled"  though. Although I never wanted for anything materially, I was expected to be extremely grateful for it.  I asked my parents when I was 14, whether I could go on a school trip to Japan, with my Japanese language class.  My father had a fit, telling me how selfish I was to expect him to pay for me to go on a "holiday" while he worked.  My mother pushed for me to go (a number of my friends were going), so my father allowed it but also booked a holiday in fiji for him and my mother while I was away.  
I've dealt with depressions and anxiety since teenage hood, and now, at 34, have finally decided that I can't have a happy, sane life with my parents in it.  It has been sickening and scary to cut my parents off, and incur the wrath of my father's side of the family.  They are all like him and i know i will be labelled as the crazy one. I've also been pushing a number of friends away, as realizing the truth about my parents has also brought to light some of the patterns I've used in forming friendships.  I've also had to acknowledge some of the behaviors I learned from my parents, that have been destructive to others, and am working to change them.  I've got no idea what the future holds for me, in fact I feel completely lost.  But I KNOW that finally listening to myself is the way forward, and that all the resistance I've felt for a long time, and that so many others here have spoken of here, is real and for exists for a very good reason.  

Anonymous said...

I feel your truth! WOW! I am so much like you in that I absolutely cannot stand my narcissistic father. I hate to be around him so much that I told him I was going to be out of town with hubby for fathers day. I had dinner with him later in the week.

I just have nothing to say to him! It is so awkward...he will ask me what's wrong....so what do you say? the truth? THat only causes an argument. So you just endure.

When we part after being together, I want to break something! I want to scream. I just can't stand him! I don't want him to touch me or hug me (and I was not abused that i can recall). It is the neediness that I can't stand in those HUGS. YUCK.

Then I feel guilty b/c of my feelings. He wrecked my childhood with his behavior and drove my mom to finally divorce him when I was 20.

I know the mental health field says that cutting off your parents will create mental illness, but I say, forcing yourself to be with someone you can't stand is not healthy neither.

I identify with the wierd and creepy part. He always brags to me about what a success I am and wishes that my brother could be successful. OMG! that infuriates me!
well, enough ranting. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HONESTY IN YOUR POST. i can't begin to tell you how long I have kept this secret. Just being able to write this out helps some.
THanks!

Anonymous said...

I just posted the above and remember something really odd:one thing my dad did when we were little (my borther and I). He sat in his chair one evening and faked being dead. When me and my brother got upset, he sat up and laughed. OMG! The ulimate narcissist!!!!! He wanted to see if we cared. Is that not the sickest thing you have ever heard of? What a MF!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The creepiest part isn't the neediness...it's whats behind the fassade of narcissists...just pure lifelesness, hatred, power-hunger, self-righteousness and thoughts of revenge...nothing human...it's like hugging a slimy creature...and if you think about it, narcissists are the kind of people that you are warned about in fairy-tales.

Alexis said...

I have no problem admitting how I feel about my n-mother.
1. I call her N-C rhymes with bunt.
2. If she dies in a hospital I'm afraid to be in the room when it happens. Not cus I'll be devastated but cus the nurses won't understand my joyous reaction. I don't want them calling homicide.
3. She does make my skin crawl. Her thing is growing old as badly as possible. Funny since she always had such a high opinion of herself. I expected her to be like Betty White. So she's on a walker when there is NOTHING wrong with her. She takes no meds. Has no joint replacements. Perfect BP. She's healthier and in less pain than I am with Fibromyalgia -- I got from a lifetime of eating her s*it.
4. I do live with her for finaical reasons, like the fact I'm not shelling out a dime of my inheritance to put her in a home. I watch the money like a hawk.
5. I'm always disappointed she's still alive. I'm always disapointed to hear that walker scraping the tile or the water running. When I go into her room when she falls asleep with the tv on, I get bummed out if her chest goes up and down.
6. I never believe a word she says. She has the flu every other day. She proudly announced she might need to live in a home cus she needs round the clock care. Really! No one provides round the clock care for round the clock lazy. Not like her IV bag needs to be changed every 2 hours.
I could go on but I'd never stop.
So yes. I do hate my mother. I've hated her since I was 7.

Buddy said...

My parents never hugged or touched us as kids, or even as young adults. (Why should they? We were stupid and smelled, and never did anything worth getting a hug for.) Then one day, about 8 years ago, they started hugging, and telling us the "loved " us. Its the creepiest thing in the world...there have been so many lies over the years, that now this just seems like the most blatant one yet, and sibs and I hate it. We have talked about the sexual abuse thing, and we are sure there was not any, but we still don't want him to touch us.
I feel bad for all the youngsters on here...get help...tell a counselor, or friend's parent. Your N-parents family will probably think you're crazy...but keep trying, someone will listen.

Jasmine said...

I was groomed from the beginning to think that my nfather was the ultimate, but as I got older, I avoided him and started to hate him. He is a very intelligent man, but also very controlling. I always needed to stay quiet & out of sight. He offered to buy me a car to stop seeing my boyfriend (who I have had a happy 38 yr marriage with) and even sent me overseas for a whole summer to forget him. When we got married, he frequently said "once you're married, you're on your own", and he meant it, we were. Unfortunately, it kept my mother away from me too, who I was very close with. I lost a child to cancer: they visited once out of 200 days we spent in hospital. They didn't even come to the funeral - their excuse - it was too hard on them. I read how narcissists have no empathy for others, that only they count. Ain't that the truth!
He always pushed me to do better,with the explanation that he wanted the best for me, which I believed. I still felt as if anything I did was never good enough, and now, I am very sensitive, feel that I always have to prove myself, and want to please everyone. Even though I've had a successful career, & have never been in trouble of any kind, he still doesn't trust me or have any confidence in me. He talks to me like I'm stupid,... surprised at times when I know things that he would think I wouldn't know, stupid everyday things that most people know. He has always lived in his own little world... always talking about the past (50 years ago) as if it's still relevant, that his home country is so much more efficient. He is the most judgmental person I have ever met. He jumps to conclusions about a person before he even knows anything about them, & then sticks to it forever.
There were ultimatums growing up. I'd be out of the house if I made a mistake. He never talks about feelings, only world news & facts. He never paid attention to 'small talk', it was beneath him. And now that he's alone (my mother passed away 8 years ago) he looks really stupid because he doesn't know common everyday things. He's like an alien on this planet. Now in his 90's, with not too long to live, it's getting so much worse. He's needy, stubborn, & is making bad choices. I've tried to help, but he knows better, so I'm stepping back & just waiting, impatiently!!!
He's also a WW2 vet, lived the whole nightmare & is very proud of it. He runs everything, including family, in military mentality & style. Every little thing is his way, & if it's good, it's his doing. I couldn't even take credit for my success - I was so lucky to have his expert guidance to lead me that way!!
There's more: I have a sibling who is the duplicate of him. Needless to say, we do not communicate. This person has pulled stunts, setting me up, & dear old dad listens, but so far I've weathered each storm with dignity & perseverance. This sibling is already getting what is deserved - the same treatment from their own kids. A narc is so blind to the qualities that are so ugly, they don't realize they're bringing up another. Serves them right!
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I've learned what I don't want to be, and brought up my other children with love, kindness, affection and acceptance. I believe in unconditional love. This person who gave me life doesn't.
I'm now struggling to let go of the idea that I'll ever have love or trust from my own father. It shouldn't matter because he's such a jerk, but deep down it does. My brain says "why should a prejudiced, judgmental, arrogant, self-centered jerk's opinion matter?!" but in my heart, the lie of a phony 'love' has done it's damage. I'm sick of his lies, lack of trust, & lack of acknowledgment, and can't wait for him to be gone. I long for freedom from obligation, guilt and having to tolerate his presence. This too shall pass.

Jasmine said...

It amazed me how much I could write... there is so much on our minds. I'm reminded again from other posts about things that I have also experienced:
Gifts - need always to be earned, or have a 'catch' or condition. Birthdays have been ignored if he's mad about something.
Memory - My nfather doesn't listen to me, but when it's convenient to him, he'll bring up something I said or did long ago, & twist it. Talk about selective listening & memory!
Appreciation: I've always had it thrown in my face to appreciate everything... and reminded that I've not lived through a war, not lost all possessions, ... etc. Not much I can do about that!
Endless chatter: OMG, I call them lectures, where we sit and just listen to his endless monologue about his life experiences... repeatedly, I dread it!

To littlelostgirl: yes, there is emptiness, again now. I'm an empty-nester, waiting now for this episode of my life to be over. I've lost the 2 most important people in my life, and left with the 2 most revolting people in my life, both narcs. I'm not angry, but resentful, impatient. Thank god for a very patient and loving spouse! We are waiting to be liberated from this demon, to be able to find some joy in life again. It's not easy when you know you'll have to be with that demon again in a day or so to service their selfish needs.
In the last few years,in the 80's & 90's, things got steadily worse. Now dementia is added to the mix. Contradictions, confusion, nonsense. I can't do anything right. One day he praises me because I stick up for myself, the next I get shit for talking back when all I did was disagree.
When things started to get really bad, I started a journal. I almost have a book by now! At least I can prove all that I've done for him, in case anyone questions me. Being of sound mind is a very difficult thing to identify. I don't trust him.

PPlein said...

Lots of this resonates with me. Narcissistic dad who creeps me out. I've been asked by counselors if he sexually abused me but I have no definite memories but he definitely would consistently ignore my personal boundaries and continues to do so. I've recently been reading books for "Adult Children of Alcoholics and other dysfunctional families". Lots of issues cross over between these two groups and if your parents are narcissists that definitely qualifies for a dysfunctional home.

Healing takes a long time, I get impatient for healing but it can't happen unless we put in the work. However exhausting it may be.

But it gives me such hope to realize there are others out there like me. This year was the first time I realized I'm not alone. I'm in my mid-30s and have felt like I'm still struggling to move beyond childhood. I tear up every time I think of the relief I feel at learning I'm not alone.

We are not alone.

Anonymous said...

Im used to watching my mother do all the work in her relationship w/my father my grandmother (my father's mother) do all the work in her relationship w/my grandfather. Its instilled in my minds eye that woman just play that role. We're supposed to be strong enough to deal w/ & accept never hearing the words "thank you." because thats our job, to serve the men who've chosen us. we're the lucky ones, & we should, "be grateful"
Im 26 & I feel blessed for having found some answers.My father has a narcissistic pers. dis. My mothers numbed out emotionally & still to this day doesn't talk much about her feelings, appearing that she has none. My father was molested as a child, he told his mother about the abuse but did nothing to protect him from the man abusing him,& not to mention the countless incidents after.Thats the beginning of the end of my father. He was never the same, my spirit tells me he'll die this way. I have compassion 4 the hurt child w/i him, but those things no 1 can fix. My father abused drugs, hung out w/ criminals, preyed upon my mother when she was 16. He was 6 yrs her senior when they had their 1st son. The only reason he graduated high school was because my mother did his work.
As reality hit my father, he became angry. He abused my mother throughout the whole relationship of 28 yrs. He abused my older brother & i all our childhood. He lied & manipulated all of us. He gave guilt trips. We were never allowed to show feelings, he considered them weaknesses. We could only be happy if he himself was happy. My father is different in public, hes charming, funny, the center of attention. He spoke of all his accomplishments but no1 ever knew that most of those were false. Hes very talented hes a craftsman, jack of all trades really. But has nothing to show for it. He believes that he doesn't have to do all the things people do. Like keep a schedule, go to school, listen to rules, offer his respect to authority figures,get a job, or pay bills & when he does do those things hes very annoyed & irritated by them. Besides,thats what we are for. to do all those things normal people do.He bashes any1 that makes him feel inadequate. Hes envious of other's success but never admits it. all youll hear him say is how stupid, & easy those things are. Every guy Ive dated is my father in another. Incapable of empathy, never admitting to making mistakes, hates to be alone, used me to be their mirror, manipulative, & devalued me as soon as I stood up 4 myself. If I pointed out any flaw, they'd get angry, sulk, defend their stance never acknowledge my reaction to their selfishness, i'd get the silent treatment. No apology while secretly finding some1 else who can fulfill the image they need, not the truth. No compromise, no intimacy.
I got therapy to figure out my undeniable cycle of choices. I thought I was crazy, unlovable, unlikeable. I felt like the only way any1 could like me was if I was doing 4 them. I felt low, & worthless because I was constantly denied my human rights to feel, think & just simply be heard. The constant pain left me feeling hateful toward my father.a child given responsibilities of an adult & expected to excel at them, when I failed like most children do I was beaten to the point of pee'ing my pants.i told my therapist I wouldve gladly taken the beatings physical pain goes away. If I could change anything it would be the look in his eyes. Empty, cold, dead. It would be the words he used to describe what he thought of us. That look has changed my life, now I have to pick up the pieces of whatevers left of the hurting child w/i me to the best of my ability. Mostly, Im tired of being in denial.I can no longer deny the truth, it shall set me free. all i can do is offer myself the love I never received as a child to heal & make the best of the life I have left. We can make it.

Anonymous said...

I have never felt safe around my N father. Like many other children of Ns, I always felt weak for being afraid. After I stopped living with him, whenever I was about to see him, I would feel absolute dread. Before knocking his door during my last visit with him, I said to my companion, "What new fresh horror will await us today?"

I realize now that my fear was warranted. It was not weakness. I was trained to believe myself weak, in order to withstand his abuse.

I loathe my so-called father. I've tried to love him, to be a "decent human being, " or to hold onto the lofty "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." But, this is impossible. One can not treat Ns with anything approaching simple kindness. They do not understand simple motives. Their number one agenda seems to be to emotionally destroy other people.

In my father's case, his world and self view is so blatantly negative and horrible, and he is compelled to make sure (of course) that he is proved right: he will push and push and push until others break, abandon him, and despise him. Then, he feels good, because he has been proven right once again, and he loves to suffer. All the emotional losses in his life are like little badges of dishonor he can tell strangers about.

I find it very hard to wrap my head around this stuff. It is so hard to come to terms with having a parent who is this sick, pathological, and toxic.

Again, it is good to have a place to leave comments where others may understand. Most people can not. They can not imagine how toxic Ns are. True pathological narcissists are the stuff of fiction. But sadly, they are not just that; some of us have had to live with them, and some of us have actually tried to love them.

I have finally (I think) stopped pretending or believing I love my father. I loathe him, as he (I finally understand) loathes me, and everyone else he has claimed to "care" about.

Anonymous said...

I'm right there, too! Have always been afraid of my father- also creeped out if he touched me- and also wondered at one time if I had been sexually abused by him. He is back in my life now- my mother is dying and I moved to Arizona to help her and spend time with her before she dies. Being around my father makes me feel physically sick! When the nurse comes to see my mom, my father will interrupt and talk about his problems. He has never asked me about my life at all- he has no interest in me. I also have wished he would die- what rotten luck that my sister and mother are dead and dying, and I will be stuck with the one family member I despise. I'm 54 yrs old and know how damaged we end up with a parent like this. I can never get free of it!

Katie said...

I can't believe that so many people have experienced the same craziness I have.

I could have written Alexis's post. I can't wait for my mother to die so that I can finally feel free. I've had several therapists that thought I might have been sexually abused because I hate my mother to touch me and because I'm significantly overweight. One even convinced me that I probably was. I don't think so. I think that my mother had no boundaries and was inappropriate but not overt sexual abuse took place. It was just her engulfing neediness that gives me the "willies".

Nina, I don't know if you continue to read blog comments but I feel some comfort that there are people who get it. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I can't really explain my story with my narcissistic father, because it is really complicated. And I'm only 17 XD Anyway, the point is that by the grace of my wonderful mother, we were always taught about his NPD, and I've learnt to put boundaries between him and I, and when I do meet him, I mostly take what he says through one year, and let it flow out through the other. Our relationship is barely existent, and I'm okay with that. If he were to disappear, I'd be happier. When I leave for college next year though, I think I will not make any attempt at contact with him, and avoid his calls/msgs, etc etc etc. In truth, I have never felt more than a biological connection with him. And sometimes I even doubt that. He always puts up a grandiose facade for the rest of the world, where he is always charming, intelligent, well-spoken. And I remember seeing him in the newspaper once, thinking, "I feel no connection to this person whatsoever." I am grateful that I am able to think that. For even though I don't deny the sadness of the reality that I will never have a good, loving, relationship with my father, I also acknowledge him as a PERSON on another level, and he is not a person I care to have in my life. He is a peacock in public, a hound at home. He was an over-indulged child, which I'm sure helped develop the NPD. His relationship with his mother was toxic. They were most abusive and most loving to eachother. It was disgusting to see. Everything about him repulses me. He is also completely non-empathetic. He just doesn't know how to be. If I ever would start a conversation about something I was going through, he would cut me off with a "Yes, exactly, that's how the world is. Haven't you seen how many times I've been treated like that? Like in the case of..." What would follow was a lecture on how harmed and attacked he's been all his life. Which is bullshit, because every person he deals with or does business with, ends up begging him to leave and get out of their lives. He's cheated more people than I can count, including but not limited to the closest people in his life; his childhood best friend who was like a brother to him, his college best friend, and primarily; his own sister. Always when he retells the story, the roles are reversed, and he is the victim. Sometimes I think that if I could hire an assassin anonymously and just kill him off, I'd be doing the world a favor.

Elizabeth said...

This blog and everyone's comments have given me a sense of peace, thank you all for sharing. Aspects of all of your experiences, well its uncanny, I could of written some of what you say. I don't know about how you felt growing up but I was trained to react to my N dad that if I was hurt by him I was 'over sensitive'/ 'it was just a joke' / 'selfish' / 'making it up'. Or often according to my co-dependent mother I 'deserved it'/ was asking for it'. When he hit me it was for my benefit.I am terrified of turning in to him. If my mother ever wanted to hurt me as a child she would say ' you are just like your father'. I pray this is not true.

Elizabeth said...

Any advice or views much appreciated as I can never trust my own opinion. The Problem: I was in a very serious car crash when I was 17 and have been in court for compensation since I could talk again. Within two weeks of settling the 6 year battle my ndad phoned up asking for a £30,000 'loan'. Why does he need the money? Now we get morally complicated. He has been out of work for 18 months after quitting his job and wanted the money to buy a franchise of a failing pub. (The quitting the job and being unemployed for a long time is usual with him. He has quit 3 jobs in four years. ) I however wanted to use the money to put myself through university to train for my dream job and finally have some where to live. Being only 23 I know I must spend this money wisely for my future. This was not going to be a loan, not only was he 'disgusted' that I wanted a legit contract but if he didn't pay it back - honestly what am I going to do, take them to court? I wouldn't be able to do it. Well he got told no. This resulted in many abusive phone calls from him and some members of my family who it transpires he had lied to. My aunt screaming and swearing at me in the street on my graduation. Me apologising profously for the ungrateful little sh*t that I am. A month passed of no talking. Then another I need £30,000 phone call, when I calmly told him I wasn't being cruel but couldn't spare the money he launched in to a tirade of abuse at how I am a selfish lying b*tch. He has refused to speak to me for 3 months now, including my birthday, and I prefer it this way. Why was the situation even weirder - while they were attempting to get the money I was not allowed to talk to anyone about 'family business' including my sister, my long-term boyfriend, my doctors, my financial advisor. I think ndad was trying to isolate me to make his task easier.
Both my ndad and co-dependent mother operate on guilt trips. Since I was 14 it has been my ‘mother’s last Christmas’, ‘I will miss her when she is gone’, ‘I have as duty to make it good’ etc. Her kidney failure I was told of course comes not from her morbid obesity but giving birth to me - it is my fault. The guilt trips over £30,000 included 'they raised me', 'think of all those birthday presents', 'its a daughters duty', 'they would do it for me', 'I only ever want to hurt them'. In fact when I woke up from a coma the only thing ndad said to me when he got there the next day is 'do you know how much you cost me in parking'. This relates to what others have said about gifts with strings - I detest getting any kind of presents from them, even allowing them to get dinner (of course before the job quitting thing) as I can feel them calculating the cost and when to bring it back up. They use helping as weaponry so I made myself self-sufficient after I came out of hospital. I paid my rent, bills, food etc during my A-levels, put myself through uni and my masters. While struggling through my A-levels I paid his mortgage so they didn’t lose their house. I am very sad that I couldn't be self sufficient when I was 16, I now feel stupid for not getting out but when I looked for assistance I was not able to get accommodation unless I was pregnant which just wasn't my life plan. What to do with this moral problem? Am I wrong for choosing a Phd over giving them the money?

Anonymous said...

To be honest, I have autism (yes, a high-functioning one, too!) and my parents (especially my dad) and even my brother have done nothing but tear me down, just because they expect me to be perfect, so I, too, have narcissistic parents; you're not alone. I remember them saying things to me like "Why can't you just stop acting like an idiot and just tell me what's wrong?", "What the hell is wrong with you?", "Why are you so retarded?", "When will you act more like a grown-up and not like an autistic retard?", "See? That's why we can't let you live alone because no one ever does that!", well, you name it. Plus, they even think that my autism is a big deal, so all they do is tear me down instead of building me up. I honestly want to run away from them. Oh, and I'm still trying to find a job so I can eventually earn enough money to leave them for good. I'm also considering cutting ties with them.

Becky said...

I can tell you with absolute certainty, it is not because he isn't your biological father. I feel the exact same way about my father and I am most definitely his spawn. Every time I look in the mirror I am reminded of him and how I hate him.
You are such an inspiration, laying yourself bare like this, and reading your blog is the only thing that has made me feel not so alone! Especially the description of you as the dutiful daughter with a taste for Xanax. All this time I thought it was me, my mother tells me so! 'don't upset your father' That's how it has always been and now I see it isn't just him, it is her keeping everything safe and happy in his bubble while the rest of us suffer. She is feeding his narcissism by never challenging him like you would in a normal relationship. I think staying with him even though she doesn't love him is the most selfish thing she could have ever done. She says she was too weak to leave but she is strong enough when it comes to me, manipulating me and saying 'look what this is doing to me'. I'm so glad to have found this blog. Thank you

Anonymous said...

Everything that has been said since this blog began reverberates “truth” and “awareness” to me. I’m 55 y/o now and the biological daughter of a NPD father and enabling mother. I’m not sure when I realized that something was off with my family but I do know I was really young…probably younger than 5 or 6 y/o because I developed a condition called “trichotillimania” where I started pulling out my own hair from my head because I was so stressed and anxious due to the demands of my NPD father. So that was what first grade? I do remember sitting in class and having my teacher call me out on it which made it doubly bad because here I was doing this OCD thing and felt bad about it and she pointed it out for all the class to see and I was teased about it and felt ashamed. On top of the NPD parent I now had the OCD component to deal with and suffered with this through my young adult life …….through high school (why does she have that bald spot on her head?) into adulthood. My hair never grew back and I still have that bald spot today even with my silver hair. And my parents NEVER took me for any type of evaluation because they deemed…. “I was the problem because I’m too sensitive/anxious/high strung”. We didn’t discuss psychological problems in the 1960’s.
My NPD father was the worst. First and foremost…he was always right and everyone else was wrong…..no matter what. Growing up, I learned to FEAR him not love him. It was his way or the highway. I was never good enough. Nothing I did was ever good enough. He criticized everything about me from my looks to my intelligence to the way I dressed….nothing I did was good enough. He was also a racist and used racial slang for the Blacks, Asians and Latinos. He was as hard if not harder on my older brother. My brother left home at 19, I was out the door at 18. My loving father’s last words to me when I left home was “you’ll never make it on your own.” I flipped him off and told him to KMA. He then proceeded to become a stalker and followed me around town and left notes on my car and call my apartment to find out if I was home even at 3 AM Because it’s all about control!!!!
Was I sexually abused? I don’t know but I’m thinking I was due to some really early memories of me telling my mother that “daddy told me not to wear panties” when I was really young and he put me to bed and my now adult avoidance and disgust at the thought of sex. Something pushed me over the edge when I was 5 or 6 that made me start pulling my own hair out.
I was 16 y/o and tried to commit suicide one February night by slicing my wrists with a straight razor. My mother took me to a psychologist for one or two visits and that was the extent of it. After two sessions I was “cured”. My suicide attempt was a simple cry for attention. OK..whatever. I never tried to take my own life after that.
I’m now a 55 year old woman with an alcohol abuse problem to dull the pain of life and my upbringing. My father is still alive at 86 y/o and I can’t wait for the SOB to die. He is miserable every day of his life due to aches, pains, lost vision so we must make everyone elses’ life misery. It’s the same old song and dance…..bitch…..moan….complain and repeat. It’s all about him. Everyday, all day. All conversations revolve around him or he will make them about him. One of my friends told me “he needs a lot of attention” .
I never had children and there is a reason for this. I made a VOW that I would not bring another child into this madness and for fear that I would become my father with those NPD tendencies or they would be subjected to my father’s NPD. My brother also has no children. Both my brother and I are routinely reminded on how we failed him in this capacity to never produce him grandchildren. The answer is N.O.

Anonymous said...

I sympathise with everyone on here who has had the misfortune to have a npd father. I too have one and can not wait until the day that he dies. This may sound cruel but the cruelty was imposed by him and not me. It is sad that victims have chosen not to have children but understandable. The lack of empathy however would generally be that they wouldnt give a damm about their grandchildren anyway. My father was given ample opportunity to visit his grandchildren but never took up the offer. I think I would have been sick to the stomach if he had of visited and still dread to this day that he may suddenly turn up. All the best to all survivors and victims of npd on this page and I hope that you can find some future happiness without this cloud hanging over you.

anthonia paker said...

Hello, to my friends out there i am testifying about the good work of a man who helped me, it has been hell from the day my husband left me i am a woman with a kid my problem started when I travelled, when I came back i never knew he was living but as at two weeks i did not set my eyes on my husband i tried calling but he was not picking my calls, some week he called me telling me that he has found love some where, easy at first i never took it to be serious but day after he came to the house to pick his things that was the time i noticed that things is going bad i taught he would come back but things was going bad day by day i needed to talk to someone about it so i went to his friend but there was no help so i gave it up on him, month later i met on the internet a spell caster i never believed on this but i needed my man back so i gave the spell caster my problem at first i never trusted him so i was just doing it for doing sake but after three days my husband called me telling me that he is coming home i still do not believe but as at the sixth day the father to my kid came to the house asking me to forgive him, the spell work from that day i was happy with my family thanks to idigun priest of (Owonikoko). Idigun priest is a great man you need to try him you can as well tell him your problem so that he can be of help to you his content email is this “idigunpriest@gmail.com” indeed you are a priest thank you for making my home a happy home again. Remember his email is idigunpriest@gmail.com

anthonia paker said...

Hello, to my friends out there i am testifying about the good work of a man who helped me, it has been hell from the day my husband left me i am a woman with a kid my problem started when I travelled, when I came back i never knew he was living but as at two weeks i did not set my eyes on my husband i tried calling but he was not picking my calls, some week he called me telling me that he has found love some where, easy at first i never took it to be serious but day after he came to the house to pick his things that was the time i noticed that things is going bad i taught he would come back but things was going bad day by day i needed to talk to someone about it so i went to his friend but there was no help so i gave it up on him, month later i met on the internet a spell caster i never believed on this but i needed my man back so i gave the spell caster my problem at first i never trusted him so i was just doing it for doing sake but after three days my husband called me telling me that he is coming home i still do not believe but as at the sixth day the father to my kid came to the house asking me to forgive him, the spell work from that day i was happy with my family thanks to idigun priest of (Owonikoko). Idigun priest is a great man you need to try him you can as well tell him your problem so that he can be of help to you his content email is this “idigunpriest@gmail.com” indeed you are a priest thank you for making my home a happy home again. Remember his email is idigunpriest@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

Wow, you don't need to be grateful or embarassed!

I also hate and am thoroughly creeped out by my father - a man who I am clearly at least 50% genetically identical to. I look freakishly similar to him in his youth, to the extent that even *he* eventually finally noticed this and pulled out an old photo in childish triumph at 'his discovery'. Despite my best efforts, I also ended up on a relatively similar career trajectory, and, at the age of 21, felt driven to take up and excel at a hobby I had thus far avoided like the plague because of all his sick boasting about his own (mediocre) efforts in that area.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that none of this matters. Genetics don't really matter. You're entitled to everything that is the same - or different - about you, and you're entitled to hate your father. Because you will never use any of these things to rub an innocent child's face in it.