So my narcissistic, elderly (81) father calls and leaves a message.
I'd just talked to him the day before and was planning to give myself the night off because I'd already spent much of the day running errands for him and dealing with his bills and paperwork.
So he rings about fifteen minutes past the time I usually call him and he shouts into the phone: "Hi, it's me! I was just calling to see if anything happened to you and if you're okay. DON'T FORGET ABOUT ME!"
When I play the message back, I feel like the walls are closing in. Like I can't breathe.
His plea may have been made out of lonely desperation. But for me, it's the last thing I want to hear.
So here's my question.
Do many/most old people behave like this?
Okay, okay, I know my father is a narcissist and manipulative. But I can't help but wonder, how typical is this needy sort of reminder?
21 comments:
It's pretty typical of my father, at least until recently. Now he will occasionally drive to my town, stop by my house during the day when I'm gone, and leave stuff like boxes of Kleenex and tomatoes on my kitchen table without any notes. When (if) I call him to thank him, he makes a big deal about how he is always trying to reach me but can never catch me at home, (sigh...), but thought he'd do something nice because that's just the kind of guy he is. He knows when I work; I know when he calls. It's silly, but it's preferable to the phone calls.
Billie, Sheesh, sounds like I oughta be grateful I'm just dealing with phone calls and not drop in visits.
Your dad really knows how to lay on the guilt. I guess they all do, each in their own way. Blech.
My experience certainly isn't extensive, but neither my mother-in-law nor father-in-law were like this. My husband would call them at least once a week when we lived nearby, unless there were health problems (of course). Once we moved 1000 miles away he called more often. His parents were ALWAYS appreciative and NEVER griped about him not calling enough. Getting to know my in-laws was a real eye-opener.
Now that you mentioned it... my dad does remind me to send him cards (birthdays, Father Days, etc) and when I was late sending them, he would call to say "I went to check the mailbox but your card wasn't there...". At the time I thought he was being childish and sort of pathetic. I didn't think much of it since my sister's in-laws are similar, they really want cards and remind their son not to forget the cards. Recently my sister realized she married a male version of our narcissistic mom, so the in-laws might be narcs too.
We were so hyperviligent about not ending up with men like our dad that we didn't see the mom-versions coming.
All of you are lucky. My Dad expects a visit at least every other day and he is never grateful, kind or welcoming. He is ALWAYS miserable and complains incessantly. The ONLY thing he wants is to move into my home with my husband and children since my Mom passed away in February. He will not let it go and continually calls to tell me he is going to commit suicide since he can not be alone -- he MUST be with me in my home. Of course I have a full time job, my kids go to school and my husband works full time as well. He needs aides and he is the meanest man I have ever met. I have a feeling he will out live us all even though he is 90. My life has become a daily horror with him.
Nina, and especially anonymous with the 90 year old Dad who is insisting on moving in with you ...I know what you are feeling, but in your cases, your relatives are diagnosed and truly elderly. You feel guilt, but you have independent confirmation that you should not do this on your own - REMEMBER this line "YOU WOULD NOT FORGIVE YOURSELF IF SOMETHING HAPPENED ON YOUR WATCH" and that you need your beloved in the "BEST CARE POSSIBLE" ... which you can't provide.
ANONYMOUS with the 90 year old dad,
he's a carbon copy of my late (thank god) father in law, he lived with us for 9 MONTHS!!!!!! and he still complained, moaned groaned, sighed you name it. He gained 40 lbs. in a few months but never missed a chance to let me know my cooking was barely edible. He was a disgusting selfish prick. I could have done cartwheels for him and still it would not be enough. I still have issues with this, I still feel it was my fault he wasn't happy. I do feel they start getting N traits as the alzheimers sets in, but yet they really are crafty and manipulative, so that makes me wonder?????
Elizabeth
Elizabeth
wow.... it's like they've all read the same manual isn't it? haha... my dad leaves messages and since we dont return them (like we once did) we've noticed theres a distinct pattern...
the first plaintive w/a bit of humor "oh i'm just calling so you dont forget about *yer awld dah*" (said w/his scottish brouge) and when he doesnt get a call the next one is a bit harsher "ya canny even give a call back what if something were to happen tae me" then the next is nasty... "i hope you're happy... blah blah blah" and then the last will be a plaintive tear filled voice choking out a plea... "will ya please call"
yeah... i'll call
eventually
he doesnt try these calls w/me anymore because he doesnt like the exchange between us anymore now that i'm not malleable or as easily manipulated
but anon w/the 90yo.... the HORROR... that he could even THINK he should live with you & your family.... oh anon i just got goosebumps.... i couldnt even fathom the thought...
billie... i'd change the locks
and lil girl lost... i think that as adults age, even the ones that ARENT n's to begin with... wind up w/N traits... i thinks its the full circle... children are N's just becaus they're children, and adults become children when they're old... so i think that's where that comes to play...
the ones that are already N's
well... i dont think i need to elaborate there! haha
Okay, read all the comments, but can't stay online today...day out of control...YIKES! Anonymous with miserable, whining Dad...that IS a nightmare! Back tomorrow. Sorry.
Roxtarchic - the calls!! Your description of them - nail on the head! It made me laugh because it's so familiar.
Thank you all for your comments. I wish it helped. My Dad is just the most horrible person -- be is a bully and he is petty. I go see him all the time and these visits are excruciating -- but far worse is the three daily phone calls. The best he has ever been is "so so." His usual comment is that this is the worst he has ever been and he wants to commit suicide. My brother is three minutes away from him and sees him almost every day. I get there three times a week. But he says he feels like an "animal in the zoo" and these visits are worthless. He is angry all the time. We would not dare not show up. I truly loath him and right now I loath my life. I am in tears even as I write this. Thank you for all your support. But when will it end?
FIRST...SORRY FOR THE UNEXPLAINED ABSENCE! HAVE I MENTIONED I HAVE TWO TEENAGERS? ONE IS GOING TO GIVE ME A HEART ATTACK AND I'VE HAD TO PUT ALL MY ENERGY THE LAST WEEK INTO DEALING WITH SOME CHALLENGING BEHAVIORS.
CINDER ELLA: I think it's very helpful to have some sort of comparison...such as you have with your in-laws. Because our parents are so extreme, it's hard to gauge where "normal" is on the spectrum.
ENILINA: I DO think that a parent reminding their adult child to send a card IS rather pathetic and childish. And controlling. I mean, can either of us imagine having the hutzpah (sp?) to do that to our kids? Oooo. So your sister married a narc? By some absolute miracle, I managed to avoid that one. The serious boyfriend I had b/f my husband was brilliant. And self-centered and without empathy. And I was the doormat.
DEAR ANONYMOUS DAILY HORROR SHOW: I'm going to address your comment in my next post. I've been thinking about your terrible situation all week and I send positive thought rays in your direction!
DEAR HELPFUL ANONYMOUS: Totally agree. Certain kinds of parents should NEVER be taken into the home.
ELIZABETH: You wrote:
"I still have issues with this, I still feel it was my fault he wasn't happy. I do feel they start getting N traits as the alzheimers sets in, but yet they really are crafty and manipulative, so that makes me wonder?????"
Easier said than done, I know, but there is nothing you can have done to make someone like that happy. Because they are determined to be disgruntled and unhappy, probably to ensure more attention.
And I do agree. That some people develop more narc traits as they descend into Alzheimers or other dementias, but still hang on to certain functions...like craftiness. I contend the craftiness and the tendency to manipulate others was there to begin with. Maybe they just managed to hide it better?
ROXTARCHIC: It's really hard to resist comparing our narc parents and I probably shouldn't do it, but your Dad may have the dramatic edge over my father. And the accent, too...that's gotta add some points. While I DID giggle, I also suspect having to listen to those messages wasn't.
ANONYMOUS: Will reply in place of my regular post. Take care!
ROXTARCHIC: Ooops...the last bit of comment got cut off.
I suspect having to listening to your dad's messages was NOT an easy thing to do..at least not at first...before you were able to achieve some sort of detachment. Those kinds of calls are VERY anxiety provoking...a nightmare for those of us who battle people pleasing tendencies!
"the first plaintive w/a bit of humor "oh i'm just calling so you dont forget about *yer awld dah*" (said w/his scottish brouge) and when he doesnt get a call the next one is a bit harsher "ya canny even give a call back what if something were to happen tae me" then the next is nasty... "i hope you're happy... blah blah blah" and then the last will be a plaintive tear filled voice choking out a plea... "will ya please call""
OMG, this has happened to someone else! This was exactly what happened with my Dad. I was fortunately able to cut him out of my life about 15 years ago for other far more serious reasons (he used to be attracted to the young girls in our neighborhood, and I'll leave it at that), but wow, the phone calls.
Yeah, I remember those. The first would be cheery, usually when he was getting drunk.
If I didn't return the calls, the next one would be somewhat annoyed ("I'm sure you're all very busy, but could you give me a call please? Thanks." click).
The third would use my full name, and be all formal. This is not my name, but he would totally be like "Hello, MARGARET. This is your FATHER. I just thought that maybe when you get a moment in your schedule, you might have a few moments to call back. There are some things I'd like to talk to you about."
The FOURTH ... yeah, that's when he would usually be drunk again: "Hi sweetie, I'm not sure what I have done, but obviously I have done something to offend you. I just love you so much and think so highly of you, it would break my heart and I just couldn't go on if I had done something to hurt your feelings. I miss ya so much sweetheart, and the neighbors were asking about you just the other day, and I told them all about my wonderful daughter. I love you sweetheart. No matter what, you are always number one in my book."
Now, remember that all these calls would be made in the course of a single weekend where I had (horrors) gone away without telling him. We lived 6 states apart!
Any conversations I did have with him were a coin-toss: I'd either get maudlin drunk love-yooooo dad, everything's great I'm-high Dad, pissed off Dad ....
I just couldn't take it anymore. When I last saw him, I was an adult with a husband. My Dad visited us, and commented on my husband's youngest sister, and how the boys would "all want to get into HER pants soon."
That was it. I wrote the letter, and that was it. 15 years. I hear all the time about how he misses me from my siblings, who are all male. They don't think his prediliction for "the young ones" is all that bad, as long as it's in legal (though creepy) territory.
I just couldn't have him in my life anymore once I reached a certain age.
Melissa,
I'm sure it's somewhat of a relief to learn that you're not the only one with a father who quickly escalates...in the space of a weekend! What's interesting is that grown men are fully capable of throwing a pity party and are every bit as manipulative as Eve in the Bette Davis movie, All About Eve!
I think your Dad's attention to young girls is more than a little creepy. If your Dad is narcissistic, then the lack of boundaries coupled with entitlement can lead him to sexual abuse. As his only daughter, you may have sensed this about him. I think women are MUCH more in tune than other men, who may dismiss this sort of behavior as "just talk." I sounds like you made the healthiest choice available!
Nina,
Thank you so much just for saying you understand. I know you do, I get so much from your blog entries.
Your emotions are so often exactly what I am feeling.
I love Cinder ella's comment about her in-laws- I agree... I have been having the same experience- very eye opening!
My mother is like this- and has been, but as I have been withdrawing for my sanity so I can save my strength for handling my kiddo's issues and my health, her neediness is sickening and comical.
The arrangement (due to my illness) was for her to call if she didn't hear from me by a certain time in
the day (I have diabetes and my blood sugar sometimes drops when I sleep and I don't feel it and go into seizure and nobody would be here to help my kid)...
So I tested it (I had my doubts that she would follow through as it wasn't on her terms)... After about a week of no contact she called and said "Are you still there? Don't you care if I can't wake up in the morning and have a seizure? What will happen to the dog (her "kid") then?"
She's not at risk for such an incident (not more than anyone else) but of course took my problem and made it her own...
Ugh.
Not surprising though...
So what you are experiencing is, in my humble opinion, not a regular old person thing if there is narcissism on board... Anyone else and I would just write it off as an episode of really missing the kids and thinking about their mortality....
Giant hugs!
Bek,
Your mother's behavior is comical, but it's also profoundly sad that she can't step it up and put herself aside. Wow. She STOLE your serious health issue? That's really something. You sound like you've got a pretty good handle on "it"...as aggravating as "it" is! I detect some detachment and a sense of humor about the whole thing!
uggh melissa... yours was a drinker too huh? mine doesnt drink anymore (an act of self preservation which kinda cracks me up, he's only sober because he got scared straight, so as much as he's "gonnay die" half the time, he sure is taking good care of his health these days)... but i think being drunk has only a slight effect on these calls it seems (a slurring effect i think)... because they've no shame, it's all about the manipulation & their absorbtion in themselve. thats why it's funny to me he's sober now... we would have KILLED to have a sober father during our childhood, but i realize now... it would have been WORSE if he was straight... at least we have the "well he was a drunk" excuse for his behavior... which for some reason makes it easier (i dont know why) just like... he's a narcissist makes it easier because it's "him" not me, or us...
if that makes any sense.
and i'm glad the my take oh the phone pattern was able to make a few of you smile... and make you realize "ah hah" i'm not alone.
yes back in the day it would tear me up, (you're right about that nina it wasnt easy) BUT... in my current frame, i DO find the humor in it...
and nina i hope this wk is easier on the teen front... (nevermine on the narc front) ;)
Your blog is really amazing. I had no idea these traits in narcissistic parents were so prevalent. I thougt my dad was the only one who did these things...
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