When I was growing up, I had a bad case of father envy.
My own father, a childlike narcissist, was such a big baby there were times I wanted to scream, "Act like a man, for God's sake!"
When he went to the dentist, the pain was excruciating. Only he experienced that kind of pain. When he had a cold, only he got it that bad. When he went to the Department of Motor Vehicles, only he had to wait in such long lines. Everybody was out to get him. He was always the victim, the one who deserved pity.
There's was also something vaguely womanish about my father...gossipy in an old-biddy way...a little too gleeful about the misfortunes of others.
He was so shaken and stirred by any little set-back, so rattled by daily life, that I knew...just knew...I'd be on my own if there was a big earthquake and the building collapsed on top of me. My father wouldn't dig me out. Instead, he'd need to be resuscitated by the paramedics. When I was a kid and had to have a biopsy, he (and my mother) couldn't stay in the hospital with me because he was too upset.
And then I'd watch a Clint Eastwood film and wonder...why can't I have a father like that? You know, the strong silent type capable of defending those he loved? I also had a thing for Gregory Peck playing Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird. Atticus didn't follow his kids around pestering them with endless chatter. When his son was hurt, he didn't fall apart and turn the injury into his drama.
I suppose, at the bottom of all this, was the feeling that I was not safe. Ultimately, I was in charge. My father could not be counted on. He wasn't man enough. When the going got tough, he folded.
There's a unique aspect to being the parentified daughter...of a father: the man in your life is a scared little girl who needs your protection.
27 comments:
My father was always a macho kind of guy which makes it harder for him to accept the limitations imposed on him by his advanced age(90). I think the humiliation of needing my help is one of the things that has driven him to become even more nasty and abusive in the past couple of years.
But, he's just not there for anyone even his partner in crime, my mother. When they had a minor accident a while ago (my father ran a stop sign) he went home unhurt while my mother was taken to the hospital by ambulance. I rushed to the hospital as soon as I heard and when I arrived a couple of hours later my father was still at home! When I called to find out where he was he said there was no point in coming over until the x-rays were back, besides he was making his dinner! My mother, who had been left lying alone in emerge made, excuses for him!
I keep meaning to say *Thank You So Much* for writing this blog! I never seem to find adequate time to write a response, but I cannot tell you enough how grateful I am that you take the time to put your experiences out there for the rest of us to read. I have a similar parents to yours, except that my father is a full blown sociopath - in addition to having a few diagnosed psychiatric disorders as well.
I don't think that I ever really thought I was the awful person they constantly told me I was, but their constant critical hammering has just been wearing - And their lack of real support most definitely damaging. It has been such a relief to find a place where other people can discuss their similar experiences.
This post resonated with me in so many ways. My father is also a perpetual infant, though like Mulderfan's, also hyper macho. When he's sick, he makes sure everyone knows about it in excruciating detail. When anyone else is sick he will suddenly pretend that he is also sick, though much more so than the person who is actually sick, including loud, exaggerated coughing, sniffing and a whole lot of theatrical sighing and shuffling around the house. Every morning begins not with an inquiry into anyone else's well being, but rather a litany of complaints about how poorly he slept, how constipated he is, how much his stomach is bothering him and so on.
Rattled by daily life is also a great description. Every tiny setback is an occasion to rant, swear and waste time spinning his wheels over whatever injustice has been done to him. One quick phone call needed to fix a small problem instead becomes a series of long, accusatory, abusive calls to some unfortunate customer service rep. When they eventually hang up on him, it's another reason for him to rail about how badly he's been treated.
Paranoid? Check. Gossipy? Check. Gleeful about others' misfortunes, including mine? Check check. Resentful about anyone else's successes, including mine? Check!
Ack. I could on and on. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks. Really. You have been more help than you'll ever know.
Seriously Lady, you need therapy about the hospital incident already!! You mention it in every second blog. When will the statute of limitations expire on this particular event and on your unhappy childhood in general.
Anonymous,
That's funny...you're perhaps half right.
However, the reason I mention it repeatedly is that a) it's a good example of parental selfishness...combined with expectation that as an adult, I should sit at their bedside to care for them; b) not everybody reads every blog post...it is useful to recap events for new readers skimming through.
If you find the posts here not to your liking...or too repetitive...you are most welcome to find another blog more to your taste.
Nice Anonymous,
Thank you so much for your kind words! It was especially nice...because another anonymous seemed so terribly annoyed by my blog!
As you described your father's daily rants, it struck me how much our parents did not seem to get the connection between their behavior and how others reacted to it (badly)...and the general level of agitation they must have experienced.
It almost seems as if our parents thrived on the chaos...and needed to stir things up to have something to do...to react to...because without all that stimulus they'd find there wasn't much else going on...inside...to entertain them.
Mulderfan,
Some men...especially of the older generation and ESPECIALLY those who are self-centered...act put out when their wives are sick/injured and need help. It brings out some passive-aggressive behavior...resentful somebody else is the center of attention and angry that they have care-taking responsibilities.
Gee Anonymous (March 8, 2010 2:47 AM), Nina's mention of the hospital story is one sentence out of the entire post, one of many to make a bigger point. Not everyone religiously follows her blog (hence the recap) but you apparently do, and yet apparently cannot grasp the hospital story's significance marked in a young child's life. I don't know about Nina but I know in my case it was the first tangible clue OUTSIDE the family bubble that something was very wrong with my parents and I knew, just knew, that there was no love from parent to child. The child's only purpose to the narcissistic parents is to be used. You never forget the "first" anything, it is an imprint that never goes away; psychological help or no.
As for the other Anonymous (March 6, 2010 8:55 PM), oh my the I'm-sick! tirade. My dad has adult diabetes, which can be controlled through diet. No insulin shots, no pricking the finger to measure blood sugar. And yet he acted as if he has Level 1 diabetes and it was an excuse for everything. "Why didn't you get an A in math, don't you know I have diabetes?", "I have diabetes so I had to hit your mother when she cooked the wrong food", "Clean up the house, I can't do it because I have diabetes", "I have diabetes, don't you know that? Why aren't you making tea for me when I have diabetes!?" Oh how I wished I had the guts to yell Be a man!
Then I finally met a man, my violin teacher who was strong, kind, and patient. My dog, who is wary of boys and men, absolutely adored him. I willingly worked hard under his tutorage. My dog's behavior and my own didn't go unnoticed by my dad. When I won a regional violin competition, Dad was furious and would have temper tantrums during my lessons. I was mortified but my teacher refused to be intimated and continue tutoring me.
One quick phone call needed to fix a small problem instead becomes a series of long, accusatory, abusive calls to some unfortunate customer service rep.
Describes my mom to the tee. She always thinks she is the center of conspiracies because she is that interesting and important to other people that they have to focus their time and energy to think up of ways to do her wrong. One day her landlord emailed this to me:
It seems that your mom's goal is to punish herself and pretend that she's in a prison in solitary confinement until you release/retrieve her. Seems like her life force is about being angry and trying to control the world; force the sun to set an hour early, dramatically "will" a cloud to stop in place in the sky.
I had a brief conversation with Glenna in the late fall and know that Glenna was concerned for you being able to maintain a life of your own without succumbing to your mom's willfulness. Your mom is in a good neighborhood and a good environment if she will only embrace the opportunities. If she wants neighbors to assist, she will need to promote situations of reciprocity. I'm inclined to think that she just "takes".
I always felt that way about my Mom. That she should be less melodramatic and childish. Dad, on the other hand, always embraced the uber-macho-I-have-no-feelings-and-neither-should-you stuff.
Just as a current example: My mother volunteers at a private Catholic school where she used to teach (she retired). My mother has never worked another job in her life, so he skill set and knowledge is extremely limited. She has an unfortunate habit of taking on tasks that she is unable to do without an enormous amount of support. So, naturally Dad, I, and my husband all get sucked into helping her with these projects. This year, she took on the task (among many, many others) to scan pictures into the computer for a compilation for the school year book. My mom is not very technologically savvy, so she ends up procrastinating and asking us a bajillion questions. In the end, we end up doing 95% of the work for her because she never learned how to use a computer.
I am SO fed up with helping her and I decided to put my foot down and say no. I told her that I can't do this anymore and that she needs to be able to take on tasks that she is able to do instead of committing herself to things that she doesn't know how to do because it always ends up being a shared burden. I also made the observation that things wait until the very last minute and that she needs to learn to coordinate her time more efficiently.
Ohhhh man...it was such a bad idea to bring this up. She really laid on thick the "poor me" crap. In a justified and indignant voice, "YOU'RE RIGHT. I'm stupid and incapable and I won't EVER ask you for help again!" When I tried to clarify that she just needs to take on things that she can do alone without encroaching on our time, she says, "I know what I'm able to do! I can scrub floors. I can fold laundry and cook dinner too. Why don't I just do THAT?!"(as if by asking her to take on more reasonable tasks and to set personal boundaries with her volunteer job is somehow doing to coercing her into domestic subordination) and "THIS is what makes me happy! I like doing this!" (which sounds completely contrary to her stress and frustration she seems to have with the project. It also says to me that her feelings about being able to volunteer are more important than the fact that it doesn't make US happy having to do it for her).
When she brought out the poor me stuff, I couldn't handle it anymore. I said, "Oh, shut up! Don't try to play the 'poor me act'" to which she buried her face in her hands, starting to cry and said pitifully, "Ohhh WHYYYY are you doing this to me?!" I just got out of my chair and said, "When you're ready to start communicating with me, let me know."
MAN, that felt good, but of course, it accomplished nothing. It just told me how totally impossible N-parents are when it comes to communication. If it weren't so totally frustrating, it would be almost comedic how much self-pity N's have for themselves. It makes me want to say to her, "OH grow up already!!"
-Susie
ENILINA,
Wow...your story about your Dad and the diabetes soooo resonated...and I so sympathize! I'd forgotten an entire "episode" of my father's...he was a borderline diabetic but he carried on as if he were about to go into a diabetic coma. Funny, because my father-in-law IS a full-blown diabetic w/insulin injections to the stomach and all sorts of nasty complications and he deals w/it in a matter-of-fact way.
There IS something, well, almost unseemly about a grown man asking for special treatment because of a non-debilitating chronic illness. It's so revealing of their need to be given special consideration...it's just so...blatant. In your father's case, he also used it as a big fat excuse for some ugly behaviors...blech.
Hah! The narcissistic parent's rage and fury when presented with someone who represents everything they are not! Okay...I'm gonna quote you and that's the next post!
ENILINA,
Ooops...forgot to say...did you frame that letter about your mother?
I mean...what a GIFT! Actually written confirmation from a third-party validating your own observations! It's like getting a No-Your-Not-Crazy-Your-Mother-Really-IS-That-Way-Free-Pass.
It's too bad ALL children of narcissists can't get one of those!!!
My experience with NDad has been much the same...but he liked to put everyone at risk if one of us was ill. For instance, when I was maybe 6 or 7, I got a fishbone stuck in one of my tonsils. It was uncomfortable, yes, but not an emergency. My father loaded all of us into the pickup and drove, like, 90 miles an hour with his face to his CB radio hand-held, screaming that his little girl was "choking on a fishbone." Really???? He didn't say jack to me when I was miserably sitting in the back, hoping no one was mad at me for causing all the uproar. He just wanted the truckers on I-80 to respond to him so he could feel important. We didn't even have to take the Interstate...it would have been closer to get to the doctor on the highway. This added some excitement and attention to Ndad's life...he couldn't quit talking about how worried he was about me and telling people days later about this. He must've sounded like such an ass to normal adults. "My baby was choking to death on a fish bone, and so I had to drive like a maniac to the emergency room so the doctor could remove it. I was SOOO WORRIED. I was almost sick over it. I don't know what I would have done if she had died."
Seriously...
Also, it strikes me as odd that someone who dislikes reading this blog takes the time to make comments...especially someone who enjoys anonymity...someone who may need extra attention supply in their life and hasn't enough from the people surrounding them, so has a hankering to stir a pot...any pot.
Thanks for your blog, Nina. Glad you're back.
wow. just wow. on a day like today, when i am reminded of how childish and narcissistic my father is after reading a letter he sent me, i google the words "dad" and "narcissist" and i find your blog! i cannot even begin to describe how much my father resembles yours. i began a blog myself in 2008 about my bad love stories of the past, yet stopped blogging a few months ago, having lost inspiration. today i see how the connection made through a blog can help tremendously and i think i will continue to write. i'll check back everyday on this site, i swear, because knowing that i am not alone with parents like that is priceless. (ps: if you ever want to laugh about my dad, go to my blog daffydoormat.com, click on the category "dad" and read "the bottom of the roll". ;-)
hi nina,
i know for a fact that my father has NPD. I am an only child and don't have anyone to talk to about my father other than my mother. My mother isn't in love with my dad and I sincerely wish that she will remarry one day and find a mature partner that she can rely on.
The reason I am posting this comment is because I was wondering if you have any tips on how to deal with an n-parent. I believe that I have a very strong personality and always fight back when my father is throwing fits. I have told him numerous times that he should grow up, stop acting like a baby. I don't pay any respect to my father. He is indifferent to me, I don't love him, yet he still manages to inflict so much pain on me and especially my mum. Sometimes, when things get real bad, I just want to run away from home. These feelings have increased over the past months (ever since my mum told me that my dad has NPD). I started writing a diary and every time I feel like fighting back or running away I start writing down swearwords and cursing at my dad. I know its not the right thing to do, but schadenfreude is the only thing that helps me in these situations. It provides greater comfort than even a consoling talk with my mother. I just wish for bad things to happen to my father so that he will realise what kind of a person he really is. I want him to feel the misfortune he is constantly inflicting upon me and my mother. I seriously don't know what to do. I'm graduating in a year and don't want to stay in contact with my father, however with my mother.
What impact do n-parents have on their children? Do they develop disorders too? I'm really scared that I will too develop NPD one day without noticing.
You're blog is really insightful, and I'm glad that I have read about someone that is experiencing the same things as I am now.
ps. my name is also Nina.
Nina -
Just started reading your blog today so this may have been addressed elsewhere, but I just wanted to whine a bit. I have an Nmom and a codependent stepdad and a half sister who is twenty and lives at home and still gets the abuse I have escaped.
Through distance and time and therapy (I am 41), I was able to put most of the garbage behind me (with only occasional dreams of me screaming bloody murder at my mother). However, due to my sister still being in the house, I cannot completely recover.
In 40 years, I have not said - why me? In the last year or so, I have had unbidden thoughts sneak into the back of my mind. Excuse my French, but why the FUCK did my sister and I not have a good childhood or a normal family? I hate to even question it, because I'm too mature to go there, and everyone on this earth has their trials. But it's still starting up lately. I feel like such a brat when I scream at God - IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just as Nina I started reading this blog today. So many things going through my mind. My father is an N and so many times I have described him as an old lady. Paranoid is an understatement, constantly gossiping, complaining and criticizing everything. He even goes as far as spying on the neighbors with binoculars and digging up damning evidence on the internet. He gets so excited over other peoples faults almost like a child.
Nothing he does is wrong, denies the abuse physical and emotional. God I could write a book about his N traits. Still trying to figure out to deal with him and keep my sanity, does not help I came to this site and others because I'm trying to get information on how to deal my STB ex N husband. I guess I should stick around for awhile.
P.S. I cannot be the only one who fell for an N after suffering from N parents.
Oh and I can relate to the diabetes as well. My husband has crohns (not saying it is not a serious disease) But he would use that as an excuse for everything including needing to sleep 10 to 12 hours a day and not have to help with the kids. Oh and I would hear almost everyday how he has a chronic illness and I have no sympathy or care for how much he suffers. He was such a baby about it, it made me lose respect for his manhood (not that he had much of it).
My n-mother is the same when it comes to making tragedies about her. When I suffered my first miscarriage, I had a hard time emotionally recovering. My mother got sick of my sadness after a couple of weeks. She asked me "when are you going to get over this?". It wasn't me that just lost a baby she said, she lost a grandchild and I should be sensitive to that.
I have other examples, but that one came back to me while reading this story.
Because of the miscarriage, and other things going on with my family, I went to therapy. If it wasn't for the therapy, I would have never seen my parents for what they really were and I would never be the mother I am today.
I like to try to mourn the loss of the parents I always wanted, and in the same breath, become the parent I wanted to my daughter.
Just last week I had a huge blow out with my n-mother. She constantly defends my n-brother and n-s-i-l, their daughter (age 9) was becoming increasingly violent with my daughter (age 5). After kicking my daughter in the back and sending her flying a few feet and her parents not blinking an eye, I finally put my foot down and said I can no longer attend family functions if she was going to be there. My n-mother took it as I didn't want her in my life "either". I haven't heard from her since. I am incredibly anxious because of this and a mess. I am trying to see it for what it is the best of a terrible situation.
Sorry to hijack your comments.
Mommy - Whenever my N mother stops talking to me, I actually feel some relief along with the anxiety of it. It's normal to not want to be unattached from your family, no matter how dysfunctional. But whenever you feel that way, find the strength to know you are in the right. You are protecting your daughter, and that's all that matters. You do your thing and if others react badly - NOT your problem.
For me this blog was the most amazing thing that has helped. I could not find the words/characterestic to desribe my father behaviour, and after reading the blog and the books recommended I know have something that I can identify with and know its not baloney in my brain.
My story is simple - Asian upbringing, always trying to be the child that pleased the dad, always wanted to be praised and always wanted to please.
In the end a few things happened that made me change what I did and now I am much happier.
First I recognised that my father really was only interested in himself and I (and my siblings, mum etc) were means to an end for him. He very much so us as an extension of himself. I also realised that the things I liked doing, e.g. hobbies, were of no interest to him unless I delivered a certificate or a prize, which he could boast about.
In the end it been hard (and I wish I had done it a long time ago), but I basically broke up any kind of conversation with my dad, but allowed him access of my children, as he seems a good grandad to them.
Even though I live close by, when I visit my parents, I say very very little in my dads' presence, never try and win praise, or talk about achievements and always make sure I am demonstrating love to my children (so i can be sure I have broken the cycle).
I still have moment of intense anger, but they get less frequent.
Once I abandoned my hope that my dad would 'one day' be the dad that every son craves for, life became more straighforward.
I'm floored by this blog. The words you have written echo my life experience. I'm not alone. Incredible. All these years, my whole life....It wasn't my fault. I didn't do anything wrong.
I asked my bully dad to control his wife. He said, "I'm not going to get mommy mad at me." Never protected his daughter. He was such a wussy lap dog.
I've had similar experiences with my n-parent. One side was the macho guy who hates crying (or is this an Asian thing? both my parents - Asian - hated it when I cried, but I actually had to tell them, "I've been trying to stop for 25 years and all it does is delay the crying!" before they eventually learned to ignore it). The other side was the paranoid person who was worried everyone was out to get them. Ironically, I honestly believe that my father can and will save me from an earthquake.... but somehow, some way, I'm going to get blamed for being in the earthquake in the first place. Awwwkward.
I too had the father envy when I was younger...
My dad is horribly whiny and critical- and he will lash out at things like if you banged a chair accidently or showed some displeasure at a controlling statement.
If he deemed you were wrong, you would be subjected against your will to sit and 'discuss' the problem for hours on end. He will then bring up minute details from the past regarding your behavior, and convince you that you are selfish, lazy or unlikeable. He would even try to convince you that you are hated at work or by strangers without any evidence. N will turn you against yourself because when you cry, it means they won.
During his discussions, if you were to disagree with his opinion he will tell you to shut up and listen. He will then drag other members of the family in, like my dependent-enabler mother to sit and listen to him. Nobody else can do anything until he is done.
The N parent loves being the center of attention and the drama.
My N father also likes to blame my mum for cooking the wrong food and triggering his IBS, when its simply his lack of taking personal responsibility that is the issue. How hard can it be writing down a food diary and avoiding the food? He also talks about his digestive issues in detail to anyone who comes in the house. That is also his long-term excuse for not going out to get a job that will help the family.
He also picks arguments with his 1-2 clients that he has left when he thinks they do not appreciate him- very illogical.
But as long you butter up a N, they try to make you like them. If you see them in full clarity and disagree, be prepared to take some hate...
I also had a chuckle about the diabetes. My dad has been a diabetic since his mid-30's. All of this was due to his inability to control intake of junk foods. He blames it on my mom's cooking. My mom happens to be a kick ass cook, but my dad makes her sound like a horrible cook, he even complains to family friends that my mom is trying to poison him with her bad cooking. Thankfully, their friends (who, as far as my siblings and I are concerned and not really friends of my dad, but of my mom), know that my mom is a great cook, having tasted her food before. So, back to the diabetes, it is my dad's go to excuse for EVERYTHING. "I have hypoglycemia." Every time he needs something or wants something or just wants to guilt you, he says, "I have hypoglycemia." My mom (enabler) even uses it as an excuse for my dad's bad behavior. She always says, "he's hypoglycemic, that's why he's crabby." Um, no mom, he is ALWAYS crabby, it has nothing to do with his diabetes, he was like this before diabetes!
As HCPs we have all said, "Dad, if you have hypoglcemia, then your meds are not properly managed, if they were, you wouldn't be having hypoglcemic episodes." However, no, he chose to manage his own diabetes instead of going to an endocrinologist (and did a horrible job of it, btw) and hypoglycemia is often his excuse to eat junk food. "Oh, I have hypoglycemia, I have to eat this candy bar RIGHT NOW!" {eye roll} Oh and every time he is, "hypoglycemic" he blames it on my mom! I bet she wished had super powers like that! How can an adult, esp one who is a physician, blame another person for their diabetes???
Weirder yet, he has been lecturing my siblings and I about how we will all get diabetes, just like him. To him, this is a fact, not an opinion, we WILL get it, according to him. He makes it sound like his diabetes has nothing to do with the fact that he didn't exercise, ate like crap and was overweight, these were his own poor choices. His own mother was a diabetic and while there may be some heredity at play, in the end, he basically sabotaged himself into the perfect storm to get diabetes. Oh and get this, during each of my 3 pregnancies, as soon as I became pregnant, my dad would accuse me of being diabetic. nevermind that you don't even get tested for gestational diabetes util you are past the midway point of your pregnancy. Here's how it would go, "Mom and dad, guess what, I'm pregnant." Dad's response: "YOU'RE DIABETIC!" Seriously, WTF how is this a normal response to finding out that you will be expecting a grandchild? I passed all of my glucose tolerance tests with flying colors, and even with that knowledge, he would insist that I was lying and the test was wrong (he must have some sort of super power to be able to override a lab test!) and I was indeed diabetic. Basically, he wants us to be diabetic too, so that he won't be the only one with that label, so he's not the only one who's miserable. It makes me so mad, that a parent would be so selfish, that he would rather that his children have the same disease as him, than to encourage them to lead a healthy life to AVOID the same disease!
Hello I'm new to this I'm 31 and don't really wish to give my name yet, but I would like to say that u are all very strong and brave people. I have two n-parents and going threw some stressful times. My family has always been toxic to my health I just didn't know why until now. This site and your comments are very healing you people let me know I'm not alone thank-you
Another great post as usual.
Nina, regarding Anonymous March 2010 post, I think it a good idea to remove the Anonymous choice in profiles. It opens the field for a whole spectrum of trolls to have a jab at your wonderful blog. That post - based on content and language structure - was non constructive and ignorant. Even if posters make up names, it's better than having a collection of Anonymous posters where the ones who are genuinely constructive may be confused with the bad apples.
I remember reading a news report of individuals who admitted to this addiction of online trolling behaviour. It wasn't too far off narcissistic behavioral traits to me. Ironic really, because that would mean the post is an example of narcisstic behaviour on a blog discussing narcisstic behaviour.
Back on track...
It's amazing how similar experiences with n-parents are. The fact that an extreme narcissist won't recognize and therefore, won't seek therapy, means that the prevalence of children abused by such behaviour would be under reported and very difficult to constructively develop ways to manage/reduce this family issue. No wonder child abuse is still such a significant social issue.
I do my bit by donating to charities that research/fight against child abuse.
However, I don't think that's enough. Children who get outright abused give authorities something to work with. Narcisstic insult is not something that usually offers up tangible evidence. As much as a qualified psychologist would be trained to recognize a n-parents, I think the issue shouldnt be treated
as just 'one of the conditions'. I think it should be treated as a common enough mental health issue as to deserve its in own specialist field of study in the psychology field (to my knowledge, there isn't one yet). Awareness is starting to rise, as demonstrated by the wonderful work of Dr Karyl McBride and Joseph Burgo (counsellor/psychologists who focus on supporting children of narcisstic parenting). I especially like Joseph's blog because it actually changes how I feel. Although, I prefer to post on this blog. Nina has an amazing ability to focus a particularly safe and positive environment to share our experiences. Thumbs up to Nina :).
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