The flip side to the previous post...about narcissistic fathers acting like big babies...is the narcissistic mother acting like a helpless little girl.
One trait I've observed in my own n-parent, and I have no idea how universal this is, is their stubborn resistance to personal growth. They are unwilling to identify a behavior that causes them distress and work to change it...from within. The change, they insist, must come from external sources. In other words, they blame others. (Translation....WE are asked to change, constantly, to accommodate them)
As a result, my n-father had managed to reach old middle age without acquiring the perspective and wisdom usually associated with that age group. He remained....forever 13.
Susie shared her experience with her mother...and I thought it so well illustrated the broader point that I just had to copy and paste it! (Hope you don't mind, Susie). I also applaud her for directly confronting her parent, something I rarely did which I now wish I had! Of course, while we can't change our n-parent, there is something to be said for the satisfaction of sticking up for yourself, setting some boundaries and, well, letting it rip.
The way Susie's mother responds to the criticism...and the setting of boundaries...is, well, CLASSIC! A perfect example of how an n-parent goes into victim-martyr mode when you try to discuss their behavior, thereby escaping personal responsibility. (By contrast, my youngest daughter complained to my husband that he does this thing that really bothers her. He listened, apologized and promised to work on it...she felt acknowledged and respected...he was grateful to have the opportunity to fix something that would improve their communication/relationship).
I guess the big sad take-away is...the relationship with an n-parent is NON-NEGOTIABLE.
Still, for those of you trying to figure out if you're dealing with an n-parent, it's useful to have concrete examples....so here is an excellent "case study" written by Susie (credit to Susie for the post title).
I always felt that way about my Mom. That she should be less melodramatic and childish. Dad, on the other hand, always embraced the uber-macho-I-have-no-feelings-and-neither-should-you stuff.
Just as a current example: My mother volunteers at a.....school where she used to teach (she retired). My mother has never worked another job in her life, so he skill set and knowledge is extremely limited. She has an unfortunate habit of taking on tasks that she is unable to do without an enormous amount of support. So, naturally Dad, I, and my husband all get sucked into helping her with these projects. This year, she took on the task (among many, many others) to scan pictures into the computer for a compilation for the school year book. My mom is not very technologically savvy, so she ends up procrastinating and asking us a bajillion questions. In the end, we end up doing 95% of the work for her because she never learned how to use a computer.
I am SO fed up with helping her and I decided to put my foot down and say no. I told her that I can't do this anymore and that she needs to be able to take on tasks that she is able to do instead of committing herself to things that she doesn't know how to do because it always ends up being a shared burden. I also made the observation that things wait until the very last minute and that she needs to learn to coordinate her time more efficiently.
Ohhhh man...it was such a bad idea to bring this up. She really laid on thick the "poor me" crap. In a justified and indignant voice, "YOU'RE RIGHT. I'm stupid and incapable and I won't EVER ask you for help again!" When I tried to clarify that she just needs to take on things that she can do alone without encroaching on our time, she says, "I know what I'm able to do! I can scrub floors. I can fold laundry and cook dinner too. Why don't I just do THAT?!"(as if by asking her to take on more reasonable tasks and to set personal boundaries with her volunteer job is somehow doing to coercing her into domestic subordination) and "THIS is what makes me happy! I like doing this!" (which sounds completely contrary to her stress and frustration she seems to have with the project. It also says to me that her feelings about being able to volunteer are more important than the fact that it doesn't make US happy having to do it for her).
When she brought out the poor me stuff, I couldn't handle it anymore. I said, "Oh, shut up! Don't try to play the 'poor me act'" to which she buried her face in her hands, starting to cry and said pitifully, "Ohhh WHYYYY are you doing this to me?!" I just got out of my chair and said, "When you're ready to start communicating with me, let me know."
MAN, that felt good, but of course, it accomplished nothing. It just told me how totally impossible N-parents are when it comes to communication. If it weren't so totally frustrating, it would be almost comedic how much self-pity N's have for themselves. It makes me want to say to her, "OH grow up already!!"
17 comments:
Describes my mum perfectly *sigh*
I have only recently managed to try defending my own reasonable behavior when she "acts up". Don´t know if it works but having a stance when facing a NPD mum is better then nothing at all.
I mean any comment about a narcissist can be viewed as an insult, yet they throw out a lot of they´re own bombs at people around them deliberately. It´s tragic. They are forever trapped as they are, all you can do is keep your wits about you and fight or leave.
“Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.”~Jacob M. Braude
OK, blog friends, NOW consider how hard it is to change your narcissistic parents!
This is from my latest post is entitled "Change". I won't bore you with the whole thing but basically my narcissistic parents have no motivation to change because...wait for it...they're PERFECT!
So I had to change.
#1 I could shut up and endure the abuse...not an option.
#2 I could become emotionally detached and not let them get to me. Tried this but couldn't pull it off.
#3 I could calmly and quietly demand some respect and appreciation. This is, of course the option I chose.
So this perfect couple have retaliated by cutting me out of their lives. Boo hoo!
I end with a quote of my own: "When people treat you like a doormat, remember you're the one that made the decision to lie on the floor. So, get up off the floor and walk away!"
You have described my husband perfectly. My daughters have learned much about dealing with an N-parent.
However to say that they are "forever 13" seems almost an insult to normal 13-year-olds. ;-)I'd put my husband's emotional age at closer to 4.
Nina,
I don't mind if you use my examples. My mother is so dramatic... I've got a billion of 'em :)
-Susie
EARLA,
It's so true what you say...they DO lob so many bombs...and hurt a lot of people in the process...but seem uniquely unequipped to process even the smallest criticism.
..."managed to try defending" yourself...that's a loaded sentence...I can just imagine how difficult it was to a) get up the nerve to launch a defense and 2) try to get a word in edgewise while your mother carries on.
MULDERFAN:
Number 2 on your list is VERY hard...when you are in close proximity with your n-parent. I was only able to manage it...with MUCH practice...because I live a long distance from my n-dad. Circling in their strange orbit...it's hard to break free.
One would think that asking for respect...from one's own parent...wouldn't result in the way it happened for you..now I'm curious how common that is.
I know it happened to my cousin. She had to go no contact because her parents were unwilling to compromise and demanded she put them first...even though she was married with young children.
March 9 Anonymous,
First...I'm sorry to hear your girls have to deal with an n-father!
You are dead on! Let me revise that number downward...I do know some 13 year old boys and they ARE more mature than my father in middle age. My daughters certainly were. Gosh that's sad!
SUSIE!!!!! Whew...I woke up in the middle of the night thinking...gee, maybe I should of asked poor Susie before I copied and pasted!
I feel terrible, because I've become just like this. Growing up, it wasn't enough to say "I'm sorry". Today, as an adult, I'm learning the hard way that most adults discuss things without yelling, screaming and demanding perfection. I'm VERY defensive, and controlling; I feel like a monster. How do I get help?
Wow this is exactly my mom. We had this exact interaction when she visited my home for the first time in five months a few weeks ago. "You're right. Let's just establish for the record I'm a horrible fucking excuse for a mother!!!!!" The thing is I think Susie's mom is playing the martyr. My mom isn't really even able to pull off faking that. It's just so obvious that what she really believes is that she's an awesome mom who was just cursed with these five incredibly shitty kids. I don't even try to engage with that kind of drama any more. I already know I won't win. She won't respect me. She won't acknowledge my boundaries. So I just got up and walked out of the room. That took the wind out of her sails somewhat.
She definitely does play the helpless female bit though to the hilt. She wants my dad to order for her in restaurants. She doesn't drive at night because she could be assaulted. She does everything she can to cultivate an atmosphere of benevolent paternalism that she benefits from but doesn't even really believe.
Perhaps this is related but I have found my Nmom has an incredible need to stand out and be different. This has caused some incredible shifts in POV throughout my life--drastic shifts in religious affiliation, political affiliation, career path etc. It's so incredibly odd, but now I feel like I have an explanation for it.
When I was 16 or 17, my mother randomly started yelling in the line at Safeway that I was a slut and that she had 'seen the sex stains all over my sheets'. (My parents hated the boy I was dating - he was my first love - but this was insanity). I was mortified of course but it was only years later that I could see the pattern of what happened whenever I was in a relationship or dating as a teenager.
When I was 14, I came home from one of my first ever 'dates' and she met me at the door with 3 black bin bags, told me to pack my stuff and 'get the f*ck out of her house'. She actually kicked me out on a school night (it was a Monday). I went to a friends house who had young, liberal parents and amazingly enough let me stay for the whole week without even wanting to talk to my mother or father. My parents had no idea where I was or who I was with and stricken with guilt, I called them on the Thursday to let them know I was alive. I was met with anger and their 'wounded selves' that basically let me know that I was in the wrong. I had a Saturday job with my mother and had to see her there - I tried to talk to her but she gave me the cold shoulder. At the end of the day, she told me that if I wanted back in her house, I had to beg. So I did. It was humiliating but it was the pattern with her.
Years later, that same first love I mentioned earlier (we dated on and off for years) showed up at my house one night begging to get me back (we had broken up over the fact my parents just made my life hell and it was easier to not see him and enflame their controlling behaviors). I was out. At the door, he begged my parents to please give him a chance, that he loved me and that he wanted everyone just to get along. They of course never told me, so I was heartbroken for years, as we he, both thinking the other didn't care. I met him recently and the story came out. I couldn't believe that they hadn't told me. They saw my depression over losing him and even heard me cry about how he 'obviously didn't care'.
There are so many other stories about my mother and 'my men' that I could type forever here but it makes me sick to think that she interfered and controlled my romantic life for so long. When I met my husband, the first thing she said is "He is ugly. Are you using him for something?" Yep, that's my mother. Always the drama queen, always 'I'm doing it for your own good'.
My parents marriage is a disaster but they take pride in having stayed together (even though they split up every month for weeks at a time and me and my sister would get dragged out of school to stay with a relative). She was the queen of administering the cold shoulder and it was my father's mission in life to 'win her back'. So much dysfunction, I'm surprised I've made it this far in my own marriage.
Oh where have you been all my life... Finally I don't feel alone. When I was 16 I was asked by mone of my friends why my mom was so hard on me...it was shocking.
I was always top odf my class, straight A;s , good friend, never made any waves yet I was always in trouble. Every time I expressed an opinion or something she did not agree with the rants went on for hours.She kicked me out of the house numerous times. I have an older brother who my mom also loved abusing and putting us against one another. After 3 failed marriages and since the age of 5 I was responsible for my mothers happiness. To this day at 39 years of age and living thousands of miles from her she still manages to make me miserable. Every time I dont comply to her wishes,she proceeds to tell me how cold, terrible, selfish etc I am. How alone she is, how she'll die and no one will know...everything is my fault. Even though I am a successful professional, entrepeneur, mother of three and have managed to hold a marriage together ( against her wishes) for the past 15 years I still fell not good enough, not smarte , not pretty enough...
I am 25 and I just discovered this blog. I have always suspected my n-parent was an n-parent in my college years, but I hadn't been able to find someone with similar (practically identical!) experiences until now.
I am very grateful for the Internet. It has been my source of self-therapy for many years.
I found out about this blog yesterday and have been crying since then.
There just might be a chance, I can find out why I have this feeling that something is deeply wrong with me.
And I might not even be a coldhearted and selfish person, because I do not miss my parents. And there might even be a way to deal with the miserable guilt of being a worthless and ungrateful daughter. It is hard to wrap my mind around this new concept...
I always thought my childhood was not that bad, because I did not get beaten.
I heard about my fathers NPD diagnose from my mother during a one and a half year long silence treatment from my father. Her conditions for staying married to him (after he told her he did not love her and gave her the silence treatment as well) was for him to do therapy and resume contact with me. After the diagnosis my father broke off therapy.
After reading this blog I realize my "defects" are part of the way I raised them. And I am deeply troubled, if my mother might have NPD as well.
I started substituting her mother pretty early and her martyrdom of living with polio and high blood pressure made me her primary care giver.
Took me five years of psychoanalysis to get to the stage, where I can question her.
Was she really so unwell, that I had to do everything in the house?
Was she aware how disturbed I was when she used emotional blackmail or passive aggression on me?
I told her how I feel about the phrase: "I love you so much, that I want to put you back in my belly."
She is not even able to accept this small boundary. She forces me together with my father using every necessary means including traps and lies.
She does not know me nor is she interested in my life.
If accused with any of this, she either exaggerates (I must be a horrible mother. I thought I did you well. I did this and this and this for you bla bla) , or pleades with God (Why have you given me this daughter? What have I done to deserve this? Was I not always a good daughter?) or she just cries and hurdles up in my lap to be comforted. If denied comfort she might even get angry and resentful (You are coldhearted, selfish, oversensitive, selfcentred, without empathy and Killing me because of my blood pressure. Your actions against me deteriorate my health)
After reading this blog I see her differently, no more the weak codependent, blinded by her motherly adoration for my narcissist father.
Maybe she has the same condition, because she just behaved like the N-Moms you described.
Thank you so much for writing about your experiences. I wish I knew the words to describe my gratitude.
Anonymous said...
I found out about this blog yesterday and have been crying since then.
this is me since yesterday.. i am scared to start writing as i fear i wont be able to stop. i strongly suspected my Nmum of narcissistic traits, and was more interested in reading about my Npartner (more lodger actually but thats another story) and as i read it hit me like a ton of bricks that THIS is my Nmum.
Since my Dad died and then my Nan (also some N traits, actually not some, a lot) her bizarre behavior is spiraling out of control. she lives just around the corner from me (something i wish more than anything i could change but am not in a position to) so i cant escape her, i even bought a sign that hangs in my hallway that says 'BE NICE OR LEAVE' it kinda worked a bit. well it has for a few weeks.
i can relate to almost everything i have read.. its taken my breath away how much pain she has caused, while all the time making me feel to blame.. shes shifted the act too now to my children, which i hate, but theyre stronger than i was and take less of her crap, esp the eldest (also one of her golden children for a while, of course not now hes got wise and left her alone).
i've always felt so alone with all this.. thank you so so much, finally everything makes sense.
Just found this site and have only read this one page so far-hoping I kmow how to save the site so I can come back because you peeps are telling my life in your posts. I just now figured out my father has npd - and- get this...im in the mental health field. Yet, hes so good at what he does, even with diagnosing npd in former patients, I still didnt realize that I grew up in a hell house because of my dad's npd. You've already helped me very much- ty for this site. Laura
My narc. of a dad can't do anything by himself. He plants a huge garden with us kids telling him it is too big for just one little man. Does he give us produce from his garden????? No way! We are to buy his produce and if we buy his produce that means we should help him with his huge garden. Last year all of us kids helped him put away 300 ears of corn and I don't remember any of us being offered to take any home. This year he called us at 7pm on a week day wanting us to help him but we said we couldn't help until the weekend and he got pissed and told his girl friend we were worthless kids. We kids are soooooooooo sick of our narc. of a dad. You guys are not alone, us girls could swap stories with you guys all day long.
I am sooooo happy to stumble on your blog. You and I are so alike. I too am adopted at 2 months of age and raised by an N father and my mom is an enabler. I was physcially abused (just realized this, Im 44..) and Im in intenstive therapy right now to deal with my abandonment issues, PTSD and all the other crap they did to my self esteem so I can be free and live my life. Ive decided to sever cointact (they dont know this- weve been estranged (again) the past couople years). Im doing so much better giving myself the gift of processing all this with love and suppor. I relish these blogs, seing in black and white that Im not alone! Thank you for making it. I live in N CA too BTW.
This is almost word for word what happens when I confront my Mom about her own behavior. I'm so glad to stumble on this blog. This is amazing stuff. Thank you Susie for your post. I've been dealing with this for so long, but didn't know what to call it. We moved location and moved in together four months ago. Dealing with her has had a dragging effect that is debilitating, me facing all this stuff at once that I have been able to escape until now and I get angry and blame myself, but it's not me. It's like living with a three year old. She will cry, cover her face, and pull out the self pity and self loathing, putting words in my mouth that she's stupid, can only wash dishes and floors, and that I hate her blah blah blah... when all I did was confront her about smoking in the house. Or I cleaned her bathroom because of guests arriving (yeah - if cleaning is all she's good for, when will she start?? /sarc) The drama is so embarrassing. I'm appalled and helpless, but it's only her trying to make me feel guilty, like a bully, and I didn't even raise my voice, use rude words. I'm so over it. I have to work and live my life (recovering from a divorce), already give up so much time for her, now she wants to occupy my whole brain and emotional life, keeping me in self doubt about being selfish, mean, a bully - crap! And I guess she's winning because here I am on a blog, talking about it.
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