Later, I'll hang up the phone or return from coffee, entirely frustrated...and I'll vent to my husband that ______ was annoyingly and obnoxiously self-centered.
This seems to happen to me a lot, actually.
Possibility No 1: The role of listener is what I'm used to, having never been allowed to finish a single sentence in the presence of my n-father...in my entire life...no exaggeration.
Possibility No 2: I hold myself back in conversations and ALLOW the other person to the fill the void.
Sometimes, I wonder if there's some way I behave that seems to bring out the Boor in people. In fact, I was just thinking about this when I rediscovered this article written by Alan Rappaport, PhD, about co-narcissism. This is something he addressed at the top of page three.
He wrote: "Their tendency to be unexpressive of their own thoughts and feelings and to support and encourage others' needs creates something of an imbalance in their relationships, and other people may take more of the interpersonal space for themselves as a result, thereby giving the impression that they are, in fact, narcissists, as the co-narcissists fears."
Bingo.
The one thing I like about this...as a theory...is that there's something I can actually do to lessen my frustration and to have more meaningful, reciprocal encounters. I can take up...oooo!....half-the space. Okay, I'd be thrilled with a third!
Here's a link to the article:
Co-Narcissism: How We Accommodate to Narcissistic Parents
controlmastery.org [PDF]There's much worth discussing...let me know which themes are of greatest interest and I can start up future, separate posts.
15 comments:
Nina
Once I started reading this article, it reminded me of the changing group dynamics and the growing need to challenge one of the members in this reality show episode:-
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/come-dine-with-me-extra-portions/4od
It's Series 7 Episode 9. Can you guess which diner I'm referring to? I felt very uncomfortable watching this, but I couldn't help myself. Note the varying degrees of accomodation the behaviour is given.
Jeff,
Ack...Darn! Unfortunately, I'm not able to watch the clip...it says the service is not available in my area.
Now I'm burning w/curiosity...what the heck happens in the clip that makes you squirm?
Hi Nina,
While reading the article, I wondered... How can one determine the difference between a healthy relationship and a bad relationship? Thanks to our N parents, it's sometimes difficult to judge when a relationship is 'healthy' or when it is one-sided especially if our behaviors act against having a good relationship.
Pisces6,
It IS tricky to figure out.
I think we need to really learn to trust ourselves...our feelings.
In the case of my parents...starting when I was a young adult...I realized I was miserable around them...and happiest/healthiest not seeing them.
When I met my husband (after having a one-sided, horrid relationship that seemed "normal" at the time)...I was the happiest I'd ever been. I was finally in a reciprocal relationship...although I probably wouldn't have been able to articulate it at the time.
Even if we don't readily recognize the difference b/t relationships because we're a bit "off" in that department...I think we can be guided by our gut reaction and learn to trust that instinct.
My older teenage daughter spent one evening with an old self-centered friend of mine and later called her "a total bitch" and was shocked I put up with her behavior...saying she didn't bother with "people like that." While I couldn't seem to be able to see her behavior clearly...it takes me right back to my childhood...I did feel unhappy, frustrated and churned up...therefore...bad relationship.
Maybe we just need to go thru an extra processing step?
The Co-narcissistic people description fits me to a T. How about others?
Nina, I’m sure people love to be around you because they view you as thoughtful and understanding although they are zapping all your energy. The problem is when you try to change your behavior with them to reflect a more healthy relationship, they view you are being uncaring and “not there for them”. Next comes the guilt. It is so hard to change those relationships.
I like when the author talks about narcissists going to therapy. When people don’t know the whole story and have the opinion I am half the problem in my N-father and my relationship, they suggest we go to therapy together. He willing agrees saying that then my therapist will know the truth and he can finally let people know that he has never done anything wrong and was always a loving father. LOL (if it were funny). Anyone have N-parents in therapy?
Hold Fast,
"The problem is when you try to change your behavior with them to reflect a more healthy relationship, they view you are being uncaring and “not there for them”. Next comes the guilt. It is so hard to change those relationships."
I conveniently forgot about that aspect in my zeal to root out the positive! I mean, I wouldn't try that on anybody so far gone as my parents or one particular friend...but I have tried it with some success with several people...with mixed results. One person I'm thinking of kept looking at me with a shocked expressed..as if surprised I could actually speak. Another friend freaked out and thought I was dumping her for another friend because I was suddenly acting "remote" (what are we...in high school?).
However, I think we need to begin making an effort to change the dynamics where we can...for OURSELVES...and if others aren't able to accomodate even a slight adjustment...or try to make us feel guilty for - gasp - taking a little bit for space...then maybe it is time to reevaluate the relationship. Easier said than done, of course!
As for therapy...HAH!...my parents would have called the police to have me arrested for just suggesting it to them! In their defense, in their socio-economic class, generation and culture...people didn't go to therapy and mental health issues were for "crazy people" only...major stigma!
I'll post this question tomorrow in hopes of getting a broader response...because it's a terrific question!
Hold Fast,
The co-narcissist description used to fit me. Not so much anymore. I do tend to withdraw if I have nothing to share, but if I have something I want to say or do, I'll mention it.
About the only exception would be in a large party. I don't really like large parties, something about large groups of people makes me retreat into a shell of some sort. If there's something fun to do during the party, it isn't so bad.
Getting my parents into therapy? Hah! They're more likely to send me to therapy saying there's something wrong with me. They'll probably be insulted if I ever mention such a thing.
My reaction to this article was….WOW! Did Dr. Rappoprt write this just for me? Not very profound, I know, but basically I’m still trying to absorb how accurately he described the adaptations I have made for my parents. For me, it was upsetting to realize how my parents’ behaviour controlled who I became as an adult and how much work I have ahead of me to undo the damage.
However, I am glad I read it. Thanks, Nina
Mulderfan,
I'm glad you found the article interesting...it's nice to read the observations of a neutral party and find...for once!...OUR point of view is explained...and supported.
For those who haven't had the opportunity to see a therapist...I think it's almost as good as having a consultation.
Like you, I'm stunned at how much the parents impacted (slowed) my development/growth...and how much work is still ahead to undo it all. In a way, because we're older...it almost seems ridiculous! Shouldn't we be farther along??? Shouldn't we be more serene and wise and...calm? Inside, I'm a totally pissed off teenager...finally ready to rebel...only I'm middle-aged!
I'm a 31 year old female and I am just now really starting to recognize the narcissistic patterns that have poisoned my "family" for years (I put the word 'family' in quotes because the bonds are so tenuous and most members of my tiny brood are not currently speaking to each other).
I actually laughed out loud about what you said about getting off the phone with someone who just talked all about themselves and going "Man! They're so selfish!". I do that all the time! I'll get off the phone initially feeling good and it's almost like I really believe I had a part in it. It's only later the wool comes up from over my eyes and I'm like "Wait just a minute here....I related barely anything at all about my life!".
Personally, I feel it is pretty two-sided. I have tended to surround myself with emotional vampires as I'm only NOW (going into my 30s) really starting to understand my own low self worth and 'people pleaser' tendencies. I think I respond most to self-absorbed people and they respond most to me.
I am sort of 'friendless' at the moment because I'm keeping my distance from those I feel just use me as the sounding board for themselves or as an extension of themselves. I have not yet learned how to have healthy relationships and create boundaries.
This blog is so great so far and I'm going to be reading a lot on it. Thanks so much for putting all this out there!
Nina
Oh such a pity you can't see it. Can you see the YouTube version?:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGpc3mz4hnI
Laurie
That term 'sounding board' ... my goodness! I wonder at the overlap with OCPD. My mother used to use me as a sounding board for decisions she'd never take, and a friend of mine who believes he's OCPD (and I'm inclined to agree) used to drive me nuts with that. Round and round in circles! It stemmed from decisions always being IMPERFECT, and thus impossible to make. And so on to the next option again, and again, and again ... Probably a tad of co-narcissism at play in the listening I was prepared to do.
Jeff,
Well heck, I just poured myself a cuppa coffee and sat down to watch...clicked on the link...and read this rather aggressively worded message highlighted in pink on You Tube:
"This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."
Damn!
Nina,
Try to see if the video is available on the Channel 4 website? It's a long shot, but you never know.
Nina
Oh dear! You're destined never to see it after all!
The long and short is that this is a reality show in which several members of the public each host a dinner party for the others and give marks out of ten. The winner gets £1000. One of the contestants in this episode talked the others into an uncomfortable silence he clearly couldn't pick up on. It was their reaction to him and his obliviousness that made for the excruciating yet compelling viewing! I missed the middle 2 episodes but caught part of the final one - the narrator kept mentioning a talking-to that he'd had from the others. So there he sat, now very quiet, glaring at them through a veil of camera-conscious politeness. I thought of you straight away when I saw all this!
Jeff,
Darn, I really want to watch that episode! I'm gonna spend some more time later...did try searching for it...I can watch other episodes just not that particular one.
If anybody has any ideas, lemme know...I'd love to post it so more of us can enjoy it!
Post a Comment