Until now, I hadn't realized that for most of my life I'd acted like a victim in some relationships.
I knew I had a problem, but I hadn't quite framed it that way.
If you knew me in real life, this might make you chuckle, because I'm not meek nor am I a mousy pushover. I'm an extrovert who has no problem being alone. I have held jobs that have required me to take charge and, occasionally, make tough decisions.
In my personal life, I have unfortunately gravitated to people with narcissistic tendencies...who did most of the talking, called the relationship shots, set the tone, called when they needed a shoulder to cry on...those one-sided relationships that are highly frustrating, exhausting and, ultimately, disappointing.
If you've read books about narcissistic parents, you'll be familiar with the theories as to why we are attracted to the very personality type that made us so miserable in the first place.
Then Susie wrote this in a recent comment:
After living with parents who pretend to be empathetic, it is really difficult to determine people's motives or if they have ulterior motives at all. It's taken me a very long time to stop becoming a victim in relationships.
It struck me...besides the whole gravitating toward narcissistic types...that I too had allowed myself to become a victim in my relationships.
By that I mean I honestly felt powerless to take charge, to help shape the dynamic, express my needs. Sure, I'd complain to others about so-and-so, I'd talk behind their back with a third party and avoid, sometimes with near athletic prowess, actually confronting said person.
Recently, an old friend asked for my time and help in a project of hers and I agreed. I gave her almost one whole day of my weekend and did an errand for her to boot. When she tried to tell me how I should dress for this event, she was quite insulting. My daughter was shocked. She said my friend was acting like a total, ungrateful bitch. I was taken aback. My daughter said she didn't waste her time on people like that and was surprised that I put up with it. My husband heard the insult, too, and he said I hadn't imagined it...it was pretty bad...that she was pretty bad, too...unrelentingly self-absorbed and pointed out that my friend had not allowed anyone else to speak...she was so busy talking about her project.
The point is...in my mind...I wasn't so clear. It's like when I'm around a person like that...I just sort of lose myself...it's like I'm pulled into their sphere of influence and I can't think clearly...which leads to me feeling powerless. It's an old, ugly, familiar dynamic. A person acts a certain way. Then I act this way. Around non-narcissistic people, I'm not a victim. I can assert myself. It's the narcissists that seem to have a special hold on me.
9 comments:
Nina,
It took a long time to simply identify and name the behavior. The fact that you named it and recognized it is great! Don't doubt how powerful that very basic act of recognition is!
I found myself molding around others' needs and images and putting their opinions, thoughts, feelings, and needs first. Basically, I was a doormat who gave and gave. I put a lot of effort into relationships, but noticed that I never received anything (or very little) in return. When my N-like partner or friend would notice something about me, say something somewhat kind, or give me physical affection, I held onto the idea that the relationship had potential. "See! They do care about me!" was something I used to find myself saying often. I was waiting and hoping for the rare moment when I got my needs met, even for a moment.
In therapy, I started to get better at seeing myself as a worthy person able to recognize this unhealthy behavior, but I don't know if I will ever be able to have completely normal perceptions of people. Either I'm totally and completely unaware that I'm dealing with an N-like person or I'm highly suspicious of them, despite their intentions.
-Susie
I came across Crazy Love by Johnson and Murray:
http://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Love-Dealing-Partners-Personality/dp/1886230803/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221292102&sr=1-2
I haven't got to it myself yet, already having a pile of books to get through, and not being drawn to self-help books, but I might have a look, as I suspect myself to be drawn to obsessives.
What you describe has an S+M edge to it. Are there converse situations in which you are repelled by NPDs?
Susie,
I agree! The basic act of recognition is transformational!
I really like the way you put, "molding around others' needs."
Dead on. This extended to so many little and big things...from arranging my schedule to fit theirs...all the way up the chain to allowing myself to be sidetracked in my personal goals.
Three cheers for therapy!!!
Jeff: So you're drawn to obsessives, huh? In a way - even putting aside the whole narcissism angle - it makes sense because obsessive personalities can be very interesting. Sometimes, these types of people are passionate about whatever it is they do. As someone who is easily distracted and has problem actually finishing things that are important to ME, being around somebody who is so single-mined is fascinating.
Haven't read Crazy Love either.
I am extremely fortunate in that I married someone who is not a narcissist and isn't even the least bit self-centered. We've been married a long time. This, after being in a long-term relationship with someone who was brilliant and hardworking, but self-absorbed and toxic. As my daughters would say, My Bad. So I'm familiar with the Crazy Love stuff so I can relate.
I've finally come to the point where I have two types of friends:
1. Legacy friendships--from the ole days...pre-therapy...involving self-centered types.
2. Post therapy friendships-involving caring people capable of reciprocation.
If you come across any books you particularly like, please lemme know...would like to expand my reading on narcissism.
Nina,
I really enjoyed reading "The Narcissistic Family" by Robert Pressman and colleagues. I read it for a class (I have a Clinical Psychology degree, but changed disciplines after college), so I don't know if it is easy reading for the general public, but from a survivor's point of view, the book was extremely helpful.
It also helped me better understand the structure of therapy and that everything that my therapist did had a purpose; that it wasn't just mindless rabble or simply the process rehashing painful memories.
It also taught me that individuals don't have to be officially diagnosed for the family structure/system to be "narcissistic" a.k.a.: self-absorbed. A lot of people who are dealing with narcissistic families/parents/partners etc are hesitant to give it a name or label for fear of "therapizing them". The book speaks more about the relational style of narcissistic families rather than the specific pathology of the narcissistic individual.
-Susie
Nina
I've had a peek at your book on Amazon. I'll order a copy soon - there's a lot of (unfortunately) recognisable stuff. The over-concern with others' well-being, and the question of creativity are especially interesting themes.
I'm currently reading Prozac Nation (a little late in the day I know). The 'I' factor is very apparent - the difficulty Wurtzel displays in putting herself in others' shoes because of the self-absorption in her depression. I've also lined up Culture of Narcissism by Christopher Lasch. As a grad and postgrad, my background is in philosophy, so the cultural aspects to various PDs rather stand out for me. I'll have to look into Susie's suggestion also.
I've been writing about PD offline for a while now, just to organise my thoughts. I'm seriously thinking of starting a blog up now. I'm applying today to do voluntary work to help make mental health info more available to the public. Maybe the blogosphere would be a good adjunct?
Thanks for your other comments too. They're helpful - the pre and post therapy friendship categories especially. This chimes with my own distinction between the obsessive outsiders I used to be drawn to, and those I'm now drawn to. Haven't quite fathomed yet what's different about the latter yet, but I'm glad they are!
Jeff
Hey Jeff...I'll respond further, later...but just wanted to clear up that I'm not the Nina (Brown) who wrote a book about the self-absorbed...although I do highly recommend the book...maybe that's what you meant.
Nina
'I'm not the Nina (Brown) who wrote a book about the self-absorbed'
Ah, ha ha, sorry about that!
I read 'Deal Breakers' which described women growing up to be overtly independent when they had absent parents. These independent women don't understand normal consultative relationships and question: why is he bothering me by asking? Doesn't he know how to do it himself? instead of understanding that they are just checking to see it is ok with you. Instead they tend to gravitate either to similarly absent men, or very controlling men because it is familiar territory. The controlling men is all about finally having someone who takes an interest in absolutely everything in your life!
Nina,
I am actually quite the opposite lately. (Before I'd just agree and turn into a yes-woman.) Having gone through the anger and discovery phase of my relationship with one n-parent (luckily), I am a little more bullheaded in my approach with n-people of varying degrees of narcissism or pushy people. I take the "I don't care, I'm going to say this even if there are horrible consequences!" Years of having my voice suppressed really did a number on me, so I feel like I have to let those thoughts out. At some point, though, I hope to one day be able to tell my n-parent in a calm manner (with inside voices!) to "Stop." Or, if he really must continue, "I need a break for 30 minutes." Still have to constantly remind myself not to try to convince anyone to see my viewpoint though - my n-parent will just find another way to shut that down.
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